I_fold08 1 Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 11 players left when this hand comes up. the 3 better has 3 bet me a lot now and the short cold calls all in. whats your playPokerStars Game #24005872308: Tournament #133127543, $2.00+$0.20 Hold'em No Limit - Level XVIII (2500/5000) - 2009/01/17 19:08:58 ETTable '133127543 81' 6-max Seat #2 is the buttonSeat 1: SmileDK! (149209 in chips) Seat 2: keva18 (185576 in chips) Seat 3: ToKoCo (131325 in chips) Seat 4: capitalgain1 (34582 in chips) Seat 5: se7enth_bok (308978 in chips) Seat 6: M_Solo (116129 in chips) SmileDK!: posts the ante 500keva18: posts the ante 500ToKoCo: posts the ante 500capitalgain1: posts the ante 500se7enth_bok: posts the ante 500M_Solo: posts the ante 500ToKoCo: posts small blind 2500capitalgain1: posts big blind 5000*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to se7enth_bok [Qh Ah]se7enth_bok: raises 7000 to 12000M_Solo: calls 12000SmileDK!: raises 26709 to 38709keva18: folds ToKoCo: folds capitalgain1: calls 29082 and is all-in Link to post Share on other sites
Daemon10 0 Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 Flat call and see the flop I think, you have the stack to do it with. Link to post Share on other sites
Chris-LFC 0 Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 Yeah i'm more in favour of re-raising at this point i think,if he's been doing it a lot and been succesful he might just be trying to steal or he may have a worse hand than you,you have to remember its a 6 max tourny and AQ suited is massive! he could 3 bet you with a range from A10+,KJ+,88+... the only hands that have us in terrible shape are AA,KK,QQ,AK anything else and we're still looking good to take this guy out if he calls or shoves.definatley a 4 bet in my eyes,also its pretty late in the tournament and you really want to get as many chips as possible!!and i wouldn't worry about the guy who called all in,his range is so wide here that we have the best hand around 80% of the time here.....hope this helped,i felt like i rambled a bit too much Link to post Share on other sites
SlackerInc 0 Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 Yeah i'm more in favour of re-raising at this point i think,if he's been doing it a lot and been succesful he might just be trying to steal or he may have a worse hand than you,you have to remember its a 6 max tourny and AQ suited is massive! he could 3 bet you with a range from A10+,KJ+,88+... the only hands that have us in terrible shape are AA,KK,QQ,AK anything else and we're still looking good to take this guy out if he calls or shoves.definatley a 4 bet in my eyes,also its pretty late in the tournament and you really want to get as many chips as possible!!and i wouldn't worry about the guy who called all in,his range is so wide here that we have the best hand around 80% of the time here.....hope this helped,i felt like i rambled a bit too much I tend to agree with this, specifically because of the info that villain has been pushing hero around--time to take a stand with the big stack. Otherwise, I'd be more inclined to fold a trap hand like AQ. Link to post Share on other sites
MovingIn 0 Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 The open raise needs to be bigger, at least 15K-20K. Your open is pretty close to minraise territory.Are you folding to villain's 3bets a lot, or calling/reraising? Link to post Share on other sites
looshle 6 Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 The open raise needs to be bigger, at least 15K-20K. Your open is pretty close to minraise territory.Are you folding to villain's 3bets a lot, or calling/reraising?His open is perfect, 3xing here is too much and 4xing is spewtastic.As for the hand I'm prob tank folding. His history of 3 betting has little merit here since your positions and the stack that has called behind you. He can't be making a move here and I think reshoving here is slightly -ev against a range that should be pretty tight. If he had 20 bbs and 3 bet shoved I think calling is fine. 30 seems too much to me. Link to post Share on other sites
SlackerInc 0 Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 His open is perfect, 3xing here is too much and 4xing is spewtastic.As for the hand I'm prob tank folding. His history of 3 betting has little merit here since your positions and the stack that has called behind you. He can't be making a move here and I think reshoving here is slightly -ev against a range that should be pretty tight. If he had 20 bbs and 3 bet shoved I think calling is fine. 30 seems too much to me.Great analysis, succinct and insightful. Kudos. Link to post Share on other sites
I_fold08 1 Posted January 18, 2009 Author Share Posted January 18, 2009 His open is perfect, 3xing here is too much and 4xing is spewtastic.As for the hand I'm prob tank folding. His history of 3 betting has little merit here since your positions and the stack that has called behind you. He can't be making a move here and I think reshoving here is slightly -ev against a range that should be pretty tight. If he had 20 bbs and 3 bet shoved I think calling is fine. 30 seems too much to me.does the thought of calling to "team up" against the all in player to get close to the final table enter your mind at all? Link to post Share on other sites
looshle 6 Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 does the thought of calling to "team up" against the all in player to get close to the final table enter your mind at all?No. If that was his intention he wouldn't be 3 betting you, he'd be flatting.Also, If you call here the pot is 117,000 and the 3 better will have about 110k left behind. The pot means way too much to him to go into "check it down/ only bet if you have the nuts" mode. Link to post Share on other sites
MovingIn 0 Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 His open is perfect, 3xing here is too much and 4xing is spewtastic.Perfect? Really? What do you believe OP is trying to accomplish with this raise and how do you believe it is 'perfect' in this regard? Link to post Share on other sites
XXEddie 0 Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 Perfect? Really? What do you believe OP is trying to accomplish with this raise and how do you believe it is 'perfect' in this regard?What does raising 15-20k do? Other than spew chips as looshe said. Nowadays, the size of the preflop raise really doesn't matter a whole lot because pot odds don't mean as much as they do facing a raise. If they fold for 12k, then are folding for 15k, you may make a few hands fold by raising an extra 7k but it just not worth it.I would like to here why you think 15k-20k is necessary and what you think that would accomplish.As for the hand, at first I wanted to shove but now I think I fold. Somebody said we are way ahead of the short stacks range, I couldn't disagree more. Calling a 3-bet for all your chips takes a big hand even 6-handed. I would say 99+, AJs+, KQs+. Also, you have a 4th player in the hand you have to be worried about, and if villain has been 3-betting you a lot, there is a good chance he would flatcall in hopes he does it again. Simply, you have 296k left at 2500/5000. There isn't a lot of need to put in another 137k with AQs where if Villain does call, you are crushed a lot. A think he calls with AKs and TT+. Sit back and wait for another spot Link to post Share on other sites
I_fold08 1 Posted January 19, 2009 Author Share Posted January 19, 2009 for those interested the hand played out like this....the all in player cold called all in with 99 and i flatted with AQ and made trip queens to win the pot. i didnt really think my decision through, but was a little tilted by the reraise and went into the mind set of i have AQ i call Link to post Share on other sites
looshle 6 Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 Perfect? Really? What do you believe OP is trying to accomplish with this raise and how do you believe it is 'perfect' in this regard?It's risking the least amount needed to define our hand. We are raising UTG so we will get enough respect as it is and save 8k that you wouldn't had we open raised to 20k.He's accomplishing taking control of the hand and establishing his own hand. Link to post Share on other sites
MovingIn 0 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 His raise is small enough that it's a fairly easy call for more players with a wider range. And in a $2.20, few players are going to pay any real mind to what position the raise comes from. A raise of such a size should almost always be for value, and only for value. The best respect he'll get is that he may get the blinds to check to him on a multiway flop. Link to post Share on other sites
SlackerInc 0 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 His raise is small enough that it's a fairly easy call for more players with a wider range. And in a $2.20, few players are going to pay any real mind to what position the raise comes from. A raise of such a size should almost always be for value, and only for value. The best respect he'll get is that he may get the blinds to check to him on a multiway flop.LOL, so true. I don't think it's any knock on Looshle that he may not be completely familiar with the micro style at times. (Though I see even Negreanu is entertaining himself playing $.01/.02 in some kind of experiment or prop bet and has doubled his original $10 BR.) Link to post Share on other sites
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