17 replies to this topic

[econ_tim]

$1/$2 FullTiltCO has been alternating between calling station and LAG. Have seen him overplay lots of hands and raise needlessly on the river.Preflop: econ_tim4 folds, MP3 calls, CO calls, econ_tim calls, SB folds, BB checks.Flop: (4.5 SB) [6c Th 8h]BB checks, MP3 checks, CO bets, econ_tim 2 folds, CO calls.Turn: (3 BB) [2d]CO bets, econ_tim calls.[b]River: (5 BB) [5c][b]CO bets, econ_tim CO folds.Final pot: 11 BB

[BeanGW]

What the heck!?!?!? CO folds? Am I reading this right? Ah, the 3-bet/ fold... what a donk.nh... although I would have just called the 3-bet myself. He could have a set (although I'd think he would have raised preflop from the CO with a pocket pair and only one limper). I dunno, maybe the cap is a standard move there, but it doesn't seem like the right play to me, even with what you said about him raising needlessly on the river...

[econ_tim]

I was hoping to get a little more feedback.Is this a standard isolation play?The river cap might not be +EV by itself, but I was hoping to put the LAG on tilt since he had lost a big pot the hand before. Also, maybe I should have showed my cards to get more action from the rest of the table.

[cdddc75]

Preflop: Call is ok, though I might fold that.Flop: FOLD!Turn: FOLD!River: Nice suckout. You beat his higher pair...though I have no clue why he three bet/folded or why you capped.

[econ_tim]

cdddc75 said:

Preflop: Call is ok, though I might fold that.Flop: FOLD!Turn: FOLD!River: Nice suckout. You beat his higher pair...though I have no clue why he three bet/folded or why you capped.

This guy had been LAGing it up, betting flops with no pair, I don't see why I should fold the flop. I had position on him, and I raised to keep the other players out.

[cdddc75]

Raising was much better than calling, because that did accomplish your goal. I'm just not wild about raising third pair with two other opponents still in the hand. If one of them is check/raising the flop, you just threw three small bets away (assuming you'll call).If I play small suited connecters, I'm looking to hit the flop for more than third pair.Why didn't you raise the turn also? I might stop and go with a monster there, but that blank didn't help him, so I guess I'd raise it again (instead of folding as I said before).

[Royal_Tour]

econ_tim said:

cdddc75 said:

Preflop: Call is ok, though I might fold that.Flop: FOLD!Turn: FOLD!River: Nice suckout. You beat his higher pair...though I have no clue why he three bet/folded or why you capped.

This guy had been LAGing it up, betting flops with no pair, I don't see why I should fold the flop. I had position on him, and I raised to keep the other players out.

No.. he is right about this.. ok to call, depending how your day has been.. got some money to splash?.. why not.. but post flop: FOLD

[econ_tim]

cdddc75 said:

Why didn't you raise the turn also? I might stop and go with a monster there, but that blank didn't help him, so I guess I'd raise it again (instead of folding as I said before).

I didn't raise the turn because I figured there was a fair chance he had a pair (maybe a T), and there was virtually no chance of him folding the turn. I planned to call him down unless I improved.As for the flop raise, I would have had to call if reraised because of the draws to straight or trips.

[econ_tim]

Royal_Tour said:

No.. he is right about this.. ok to call, depending how your day has been.. got some money to splash?.. why not.. but post flop: FOLD

Maybe I'm not being clear, but the CO had seen virtually every flop for the last 2 or 3 rounds and had bet or called virtually every flop he saw. Given that behavior, I think there's a good chance I've got the best hand on the flop.

[Royal_Tour]

econ_tim said:

Royal_Tour said:

No.. he is right about this.. ok to call, depending how your day has been.. got some money to splash?.. why not.. but post flop: FOLD

Maybe I'm not being clear, but the CO had seen virtually every flop for the last 2 or 3 rounds and had bet or called virtually every flop he saw. Given that behavior, I think there's a good chance I've got the best hand on the flop.

I understand your frustration. And it happens to me all the time as well.I have done similar things, with bottom pair vs. an aggressive player. And sure it has paid off similar to your story. But this type of aggressive playing will start to reflect your "true" play. Just be sure it doesnt lead to continous play like this at every table.Did you completely rule out the 7, 4 before you capped?. perhaps your instincts were correct, but why did u cap after he 3 bet?

[cdddc75]

econ_tim said:

Royal_Tour said:

No.. he is right about this.. ok to call, depending how your day has been.. got some money to splash?.. why not.. but post flop: FOLD

Maybe I'm not being clear, but the CO had seen virtually every flop for the last 2 or 3 rounds and had bet or called virtually every flop he saw. Given that behavior, I think there's a good chance I've got the best hand on the flop.

You're not at all concerned about BB or MP3 slowplaying 97, two hearts, two pair, a set, etc.? You might have CO beat (which you didn't), but I wouldn't assume you hand the best hand out of four with third pair there.

[econ_tim]

Royal_Tour said:

Just be sure it doesnt lead to continous play like this at every table.

Why would it? A LAG is the rarest of rare at the $1/$2 FullTilt tables, so I don't get to make these kinds of plays very often. And I didn't make the play out of frustration. I did it simply because I thought it had positive expectation. Any other situation, I find it very easy to pass with third pair.

[BeanGW]

cdddc75 said:

econ_tim said:

Royal_Tour said:

No.. he is right about this.. ok to call, depending how your day has been.. got some money to splash?.. why not.. but post flop: FOLD

Maybe I'm not being clear, but the CO had seen virtually every flop for the last 2 or 3 rounds and had bet or called virtually every flop he saw. Given that behavior, I think there's a good chance I've got the best hand on the flop.

You're not at all concerned about BB or MP3 slowplaying 97, two hearts, two pair, a set, etc.? You might have CO beat (which you didn't), but I wouldn't assume you hand the best hand out of four with third pair there.

I really like Tim's flop raise here for three main reasons:1) He'll find out real quick whether BB or MP3 has him beat right there while still on the cheap street. If they cap, or even call two cold here, I'm guessing that Tim slows down real fast on the turn and river. It's better to find out here, than on the turn or the river when the betting gets expensive. 2) By forcing them to call two cold, the heart draws no longer have the odds to stick around. 3) Fold equity. If either BB or MP3 are tight/passive players, you've got a reasonable chance to push a fold even if they have hands that are slightly better than yours.Your goal here is to be heads upwith the LAG CO. This is a good move.

[cdddc75]

BeanGW said:

I really like Tim's flop raise here for three main reasons:1) He'll find out real quick whether BB or MP3 has him beat right there while still on the cheap street. If they cap, or even call two cold here, I'm guessing that Tim slows down real fast on the turn and river. It's better to find out here, than on the turn or the river when the betting gets expensive. 2) By forcing them to call two cold, the heart draws no longer have the odds to stick around. 3) Fold equity. If either BB or MP3 are tight/passive players, you've got a reasonable chance to push a fold even if they have hands that are slightly better than yours.Your goal here is to be heads upwith the LAG CO. This is a good move.

Agreed. If you're going to play this hand, you simply have to raise the CO for the reasons you mentioned. He did well. Just not sure I'd want to involve myself, but he did it the right way.

[cdddc75]

XXEddie said:

cdddc75 said:

Preflop: Call is ok, though I might fold that.Flop: FOLD!Turn: FOLD!River: Nice suckout. You beat his higher pair...though I have no clue why he three bet/folded or why you capped.

maybe ebcause he didnt have a pair....

But why would you try to three bet someone as a bluff? How often does that work HU on the river?The only scenario that makes sense to me is that Villain accidentally clicked fold instead of call...