Live Limit 2-4 Hold'em

[Braap1 0]

i just started recently playing live limit poker at 2-4.ive been playin ok i guess, but ive been noticing alot of people who are winning are playing the dumbest hands and in dumb positions. as for today, a guy in early position calls with 46s preflop a few other people call in front of me.i have Q10 in late position, i call as well, flop comes Q23, everyone checks i bet 2, they all call.turn cards comes 5, they all check i bet 4, guy in early position calls, everyone foldsriver comes 10, so the board shows Q23,5,10he checks i bet, he callshe shows a straight and beats my 2 pair. I just dont get it how people win at 2-4, are u spose to alot more hands in 2-4 and decide what you do on the flop?even if u raise pre-flop people will still call and call you all the way down to the river.i was at the table for about 3-4 hours, this guy never really lost a big pot, he would play weird hands in all kinds of positions.he walked about with about 300, when i sat down he had about 60.if im going to play 2-4 what approach do i need to play it with? loosen my game up some preflop?it seems like people who are terrible poker players are winning at 2-4i bought in with $60 dollars and got up to about $120 then all of a sudden i saw it dissapear, i was playing good hands preflop so i thought? even though they were getting beat badly.ive been reading books, but im still learning the game.Any advice would be much appreciated.

[KoRnholio 2]

Small Stakes Hold 'em: Winning Big With Expert Play (Paperback)by Ed Miller (Author), David Sklansky (Author), Mason Malmuth (Author) Is the perfect book for those no fold'em hold'em games.FWIW I don't think anyone can win money in the long term at a live 2-4 LHE game due to the massive, massive rake.

[antistuff 0]

you win playing exactly how you did, betting for value when you probably have the best hand.

[TheCinciKid 0]

Small Stakes Hold 'em: Winning Big With Expert Play (Paperback)by Ed Miller (Author), David Sklansky (Author), Mason Malmuth (Author) Is the perfect book for those no fold'em hold'em games.FWIW I don't think anyone can win money in the long term at a live 2-4 LHE game due to the massive, massive rake.

This is patently untrue IMO. I'll grant that the rake is high, but the play is so bad/loose that there is definitely money to be made. The rake is high certainly, and you'd be better off playing 3/6 or 4/8 as soon as you can, but there is definitely money to be made in these ridiculously loose games. SSHE is the perfect book to have though. I guarantee that if you read the book and understand and apply the concepts in it to even an elementary level you can turn a big profit.

[Braap1 0]

in loose games your just spose to play tighter then everyone right?

[Austnes 0]

in loose games your just spose to play tighter then everyone right?

Dont know if I understood the question, but IMO dont call hands in late possition if you play agains fishes.

[antistuff 0]

in loose games your just spose to play tighter then everyone right?

not exactly. although you will probably win playing just the top 15% of your hands (and if thats all you're playing remember to raise with all of them) you are leaving a ton on the table. i would recommend getting a copy of sshe and following the preflop charts exactly until you get more experience. this should leave you playing around 21% of your hands.

[Braap1 0]

ic ic, so limit u have to pretty much play straight forward, in EP, play pretty much premium hands, mid top hands, LP pretty much top hands there? and if youre going to play u should always raise if u have a pretty good hand?i remember yesterday i was under the gun, i had AK i just limped in, oh how much i regreted that. flop game like 2K5, i check, nobody bets. turn comes 6, i bet everyone folds but the BB, river is a random card, but the BB beat me with 2 pair, he got his second pair on the turn, im like wow i made a huge donk move by not raising preflop and even betting out the flop.he showed 26

[antistuff 0]

ic ic, so limit u have to pretty much play straight forward, in EP, play pretty much premium hands, mid top hands, LP pretty much top hands there? and if youre going to play u should always raise if u have a pretty good hand?i remember yesterday i was under the gun, i had AK i just limped in, oh how much i regreted that. flop game like 2K5, i check, nobody bets. turn comes 6, i bet everyone folds but the BB, river is a random card, but the BB beat me with 2 pair, he got his second pair on the turn, im like wow i made a huge donk move by not raising preflop and even betting out the flop.he showed 26

ok couple of problems here.1) why are you limping with AK? raise and reraise and cap ak preflop (if you are playing in a five bet cap game you might not want to always cap with it but you still should sometimes for balance). 2) if youre gonna limp, why would you not bet that flop? these questions are not entirely rhetorical.

[Braap1 0]

i know, it was a total donk move

[MovingIn 0]

Read Small Stakes Hold'Em. In a nutshell, players call all the way like this all the time and draw out a lot. This is actually good because most of the time, their draws don't get there and when you flop the best hand, you usually win.If you can buy in for $100, play 3/6 if you can. The rake will kill you in 2/4 unless the players are very loose passive (as in 6-7 players seeing every flop, rarely raising, and several playing all the way to the river with crappy hands like 2nd pair... but the game HAS to be like this because otherwise you'll lose in the long run even if you play perfectly). The rake takes the same amount of money from 3/6 though relatively speaking, it takes fewer bets from the table. The rake may still kill you in 3/6, though many have managed to beat that game and move up from there despite it.

[Braap1 0]

almost every 2-4 game ive played its pretty loose/passive. ive noticed with myself after im up in 2-4 i get a little impatient which is a big mistake because poker = patients, if i lose enough money ill learn to stay disciplined. im learning though which is good. i still want that low limit stakes book. alot of people like NL, i mean i like it too but i just think limit takes more skill? i dunno thats just what i think and i like that especially when i want to be the best.

[BaseJester 1]

Discussions about winning long term at 2/4 live are often more theoretical than practical. Can it be done? Maybe. Is it done? Not really.How much money can I make playing 2/4 live? It's like asking how many licks it takes to get to the center of a tootsie pop.

[Shark527 0]

not exactly. although you will probably win playing just the top 15% of your hands (and if thats all you're playing remember to raise with all of them) you are leaving a ton on the table. i would recommend getting a copy of sshe and following the preflop charts exactly until you get more experience. this should leave you playing around 21% of your hands.

Super System II by Jennifer Harmon?I havn't read the original Super System. Who writes the limit section on that?

[David_Nicoson 1]

not exactly. although you will probably win playing just the top 15% of your hands (and if thats all you're playing remember to raise with all of them) you are leaving a ton on the table. i would recommend getting a copy of sshe and following the preflop charts exactly until you get more experience. this should leave you playing around 21% of your hands.

Super System II by Jennifer Harmon?I havn't read the original Super System. Who writes the limit section on that?

sshe = Small Stakes Hold'em: Winning Big with Expert PlayBobby Baldwin wrote the limit hold'em section in the original Super System. I don't think that will be useful in this context.

[antistuff 0]

i know, it was a total donk move

im not saying all that like "hey you're an idiot". i was saying it like "you might want to think about why you decided to play your hand this way".

[TheCinciKid 0]

sshe = Small Stakes Hold'em: Winning Big with Expert PlayBobby Baldwin wrote the limit hold'em section in the original Super System. I don't think that will be useful in this context.

This.

im not saying all that like "hey you're an idiot". i was saying it like "you might want to think about why you decided to play your hand this way".

And This. Always be thinking about why you're doing what you're doing when you're at the table. Think about hands after the fact and you'll be much better off. And, I really disagree with the people saying that you can't beat the rake at 2/4. I'm not gonna sit here and try to do the math on it, but the max rake is like 1.25 BB per pot. Yeah, that's really high. But, the game is going to be so loose/passive that you should be able to win several BB per hour pre-rake. I'd say you should easily be able to beat 2/4 for like $4-8 an hour even after rake and tips (if you only tip $1 per hand), if you play decently skillfully. But, all of this is pretty academic I guess. If bigger games are available you should be able to move up pretty quickly. I don't think you should be waiting until you have 300 BB to play small stakes live games. Just move up at like 50 or 100 BB. You play so few hands per session that your risk of ruin is a lot smaller than it is online. Yeah, if you hit the negative side of variance, you might go broke, but you can always grab another $100 and run it up from 2/4. There's so much profit to be made (in terms of BB/hour at least) in 3/6 and 4/8 games that you shouldn't be too worried about bankroll requirements.