9 replies to this topic

[akishore]

three-handed pot-limit omaha (hi only)two 25c blindsseat 1: aseem (~$35)seat 2: wily (~$65)seat 3: chief (~100)note that all three players are FCP'ers and play with each other very regularly, so we each know each other pretty well.my reputation is that of a fairly LAG player, but tonight, i've been putting in all my effort to playing very TAG poker. i've only made maybe two or three bluffs the entire night. however, i don't think that the others realize it, since they're still calling me down often and continuously thinking that i'm bluffing.wily is normally a rock-ish player, but lately, he's been making a huge effort to play LAG so that he's not so transparent anymore. in fact, he has been playing around 90% of his hands all day, in EVERY game. he also makes a special effort to see EVERY flop in omaha hi and omaha hi/lo.chief is normally a LAG player, and today is no different. however, he is definitely on the tighter side of LAG.pre-flop: aseem is UTG/button with J-10-10-8 rainbow (can't make any flushes).aseem raises to 75c, wily calls (suprise), chief calls.flop: Q-10-9 rainbow ($2.25, 3 players)wily checks, chief checks, aseem bets $1.50, wily calls, chief calls.turn: J (two spades) ($6.75)wily checks, chief bets $2, aseem raises to $6 (raise of $4), wily check-raises to $26 (raise of $20), chief folds, aseem ...i think this is an easy fold, though it really depends on whether i put wily on a ace-high straight, a king-high straight, or a queen-high straight like me. plus, does he have a flush draw?i think i played it correctly, but i'd like to see if anyone has any criticism.thanks,aseem

[econ_tim]

Beware Wily's check raise. He'll show you [As K Xs X].

[akishore]

econ_tim said:

Beware Wily's check raise. He'll show you [As K Xs X].

that's definitely what i figured also.perhaps he'll start using this to his advantage in the future with gutsy bluff check-raises, but it's pretty evident that when he check-raises, he has the goods.aseem

[Absolute]

if my calculations are right, you are getting about 2 to 1 on the call, right?

[akishore]

Absolute said:

if my calculations are right, you are getting about 2 to 1 on the call, right?

yes, it was a pot bet. i of course didn't have the pot odds then to call and hope to fill up (especially since one of my outs was now in my hand, a jack), but i was curious about implied odds, as well as the possibility of tieing (sp?) if wily had a king-high straight, as well as the possibility that he was overplaying something weaker like queen-high straight with nut flush and ace-high straight redraws, or a similar hand as mine (queen-high straight with a boat redraw).aseem

[KDawgCometh]

yopu should've made a pot sized bet on the flop anyway and limped PF with that semi weak hand. You should reraise allin because you are getting 2-1 on boating up and since it makes sense to call it sure as hell makes sense to push in

[Absolute]

how aggressive had he been post-flop?

[akishore]

KDawgCometh said:

yopu should've made a pot sized bet on the flop anyway and limped PF with that semi weak hand. You should reraise allin because you are getting 2-1 on boating up and since it makes sense to call it sure as hell makes sense to push in

kdawg, i don't want to get in a big argument here, but i'm completely against pot-sized flop bets in PL poker. in almost no scenario do i ever make a pot-sized bet on a flop in PL omaha or PL hold 'em or PL omaha hi/lo. it's similar to pushing all-in in hold 'em, but arguably worse. you're only getting called when you're behind or beaten, and you're making the later streets MUCH harder to play since the pot is bigger and you have a harder time managing it. plus, if your opponents have good implied odds to call with flush draws, etc., they're going to call the pot-sized bets anyway, and you're just going to lose more since you tie yourself to the hand more.not a big deal, but i don't think betting the pot on the flop is necessarily correct. my bet was 2/3 the pot, and that's around my standard bet whether i hit or miss. this disguises my strength, and it also keeps the pot fairly managable while still making it big enough to get value on the later streets. plus, the board wasn't too scary relative to my hand--i flopped the second nut straight with a boat redraw on a rainbow board. in a three-way pot, that's not too bad... only a few specific cards can come off that make the turn scary (the biggest one was the jack that rolled off). it's of course not safe enough to slowplay, but there's no need to push out two-pair hands and backdoor flush draws and the like with a pot-sized bet, either.pre-flop, i think my hand is good enough to raise from the button in a three-handed game. what i hated was that it wasn't suited at all, but i don't think it's a limping hand on the button three-handed, nor is it a folding hand. if i could make one of the two fold, my hand would do okay heads-up against a random hand, but it would also do okay three-way if i hit a set or a good straight or straight draw.finally, i'm really surprised you think i should reraise all-in. getting 2-1, how do i have the odds to call? i only have 9 outs against an ace-high straight, and that's basically pushing in with a flush draw in hold 'em in this scenario. against Ax Kx 4x 2x, i'm around 20%, but against Ax Kx Jx 9x or something similar (he has two of my outs), i drop to a drastic 12%.explain?aseem

[akishore]

Absolute said:

how aggressive had he been post-flop?

not too aggressive. his check-raises usually meant strength. actually, they almost always meant strength.aseem

[KDawgCometh]

I like to make statements. With plays. I can also be very indignant on hands. Since we aren't gonna get into PF and flop semantics(If you had at least one suit then go ahead and riase PF, but I don't like it personally). I guess you know Wily better than I do, but from many of the hands I've seen him post, he is prone to making fancy plays(granted this is in holdem, but many people will do the same stuff in PLO). NOw, do I think we have the best hand here, probably not, but its three handed and your image is of a LAG, so I wouldn't assume that he'd be calling with nothing but premium hands PF. HIs flop call is very telling about his hand. I think that if he had The Broadway wrap he'd definetly raise here, but he is looking for a good card on teh turn to hit to get you, which looks like that happened, but remember this is three handed, so as you said, he had been trying to make plays at the pot so far this session and was trying to break his mold of being a rock. I'm not just looking at the ure odds, I'm looking at your reads too. I also feel that you have enough odds to draw out if you are behind and it makes a bit of a statement, since your gonna need to reup soon most likely anyway