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Nitting It Up At .05-.10


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#41 jmbreslin

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Posted 05 January 2009 - 07:02 PM

O8 might not be for me but I'm not ready to give up yet.What do you think of this one?Full Tilt Pot-Limit Omaha Hi/Lo, $0.10 BB (5 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comButton ($1.55)SB ($1.95)Hero (BB) ($7.65)UTG ($9.90)MP ($13.45)Preflop: Hero is BB with 5Posted Image, 7Posted Image, APosted Image, APosted Image1 fold, MP calls $0.10, Button raises to $0.20, SB raises to $0.80, Hero calls $0.70, 1 fold, Button calls $0.60Flop: ($2.50) 2Posted Image, 6Posted Image, JPosted Image (3 players)SB bets $1.15 (All-In), Hero calls $1.15, Button calls $0.75 (All-In)Turn: ($5.55) 7Posted Image (3 players, 2 all-in)River: ($5.55) 10Posted Image (3 players, 2 all-in)Total pot: $5.55 | Rake: $0.55
的ntegrity is doing the right thing, even if nobody is watching." - Anonymous

#42 antistuff

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Posted 05 January 2009 - 10:48 PM

even though it makes no difference to the amount the button has to call you should still raise and scare him away. most players won't realize it makes no difference.
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#43 Cappy37

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Posted 06 January 2009 - 12:12 AM

Anti, considering the stack sizes of the two villains in this hand, what do you think about just putting them all in PF? Since he's pot committed to playing post flop no matter what comes, isn't it a huge negative freeroll to let both villains pop in almost half their stack and potentially bail for the rest if the flop isn't coming out their way? Or do you think the ability to push them out after the flop is attractive as well? I can't imagine either villain folding unless they have a complete whiff, which strengthens the PF 3bet argument.I don't play a ton of pot limit, so I'm curious on your guys's thoughts on this.
QUOTE (El Guapo @ Thursday, April 30th, 2009, 10:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Whatever angle it is, i am pretty sure it will be obtuse.


QUOTE (David_Sklansky @ Thursday, February 12th, 2009, 7:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I give you the gift of arousal and this is how you talk to me?

#44 rvrchsrhtr

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Posted 06 January 2009 - 04:35 AM

I'm don't play much PL/NL anymore, but I would def reraise preflop here and try to get it heads up. As played yeah there is no way you r folding (shrug)
QUOTE (antistuff @ Wednesday, January 28th, 2009, 6:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
i told him that this hand makes him the worst player on the internet and that this was the gayest straight ever.

i then felt very clever.


Holy Crip it's a Crapple!

#45 jmbreslin

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Posted 06 January 2009 - 06:35 AM

I'm not crazy about the idea of getting it in PF because I still need a favorable flop myself. Clearly the chances of hitting a set of Aces are reduced based on the PF action, so I'm looking for spades or hearts with low potential. I'd rather see a flop and give myself a chance to escape if I miss.
的ntegrity is doing the right thing, even if nobody is watching." - Anonymous

#46 rvrchsrhtr

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Posted 06 January 2009 - 07:07 AM

View Postjmbreslin, on Tuesday, January 6th, 2009, 9:35 AM, said:

I'm not crazy about the idea of getting it in PF because I still need a favorable flop myself. Clearly the chances of hitting a set of Aces are reduced based on the PF action, so I'm looking for spades or hearts with low potential. I'd rather see a flop and give myself a chance to escape if I miss.
I think your aces alone are a big enough favorite with having two lo cards and both being suited if you get it heads up here you should be happy as hell to get it in and gamboooool(me personally I wouldn't mind getting it in 3 way, but I do like to gamble :club: )
QUOTE (antistuff @ Wednesday, January 28th, 2009, 6:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
i told him that this hand makes him the worst player on the internet and that this was the gayest straight ever.

i then felt very clever.


Holy Crip it's a Crapple!

#47 jmbreslin

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Posted 06 January 2009 - 09:04 AM

I've heard you like the 3-way... :club: I'm not confident that I could have gotten it heads-up in this hand with a minraise and 3-bet in front, and very shallow stacks of both villains. If I 4-bet they both might just decide to get it all in with what they have left. I don't think getting both villains all in PF is a good outcome here.
的ntegrity is doing the right thing, even if nobody is watching." - Anonymous

#48 rvrchsrhtr

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Posted 06 January 2009 - 10:19 AM

View Postjmbreslin, on Tuesday, January 6th, 2009, 12:04 PM, said:

I've heard you like the 3-way... :club: I'm not confident that I could have gotten it heads-up in this hand with a minraise and 3-bet in front, and very shallow stacks of both villains. If I 4-bet they both might just decide to get it all in with what they have left. I don't think getting both villains all in PF is a good outcome here.
LMFAO!!!! I think you have a good shot at it, but no guarantee by any means button only has $.20 in and you have the ability with the pot size to reraise enough where it is all in or nothing for him and if not I don't think getting both villains all in is maybe a "good" thing here, but it can't be too bad. If I knew their hands I would punch it in the old odds calculator and see what kind of equity u had (if u haven't already done this) As played I like that flop and would be willing to get it all in vs opponents who still had some left in their stack FWIW
QUOTE (antistuff @ Wednesday, January 28th, 2009, 6:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
i told him that this hand makes him the worst player on the internet and that this was the gayest straight ever.

i then felt very clever.


Holy Crip it's a Crapple!

#49 jmbreslin

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Posted 06 January 2009 - 06:18 PM

Comments on this one? Small number of hands against villain but so far he was playing very loose passive.Full Tilt Pot-Limit Omaha Hi/Lo, $0.10 BB (5 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comHero (MP) ($8.60)Button ($4.30)SB ($8.65)BB ($3.95)UTG ($3.45)Preflop: Hero is MP with 2Posted Image, KPosted Image, 8Posted Image, APosted Image1 fold, Hero raises to $0.30, 2 folds, BB calls $0.20Flop: ($0.65) 4Posted Image, 2Posted Image, 9Posted Image (2 players)BB bets $0.10, Hero calls $0.10Turn: ($0.85) APosted Image (2 players)BB checks, Hero bets $0.85, BB calls $0.85River: ($2.55) 3Posted Image (2 players)BB bets $1.30, Hero foldsTotal pot: $2.55 | Rake: $0.25
的ntegrity is doing the right thing, even if nobody is watching." - Anonymous

#50 jmbreslin

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Posted 06 January 2009 - 06:35 PM

Okay, I need to seriously rethink what I'm doing. My bonus-clearing efforts at FT have been a complete waste of time. Despite clearing almost half my bonus so far, as well as receiving rakeback, I've made absolutely no profit because I've been consistently losing money at the games I've been playing for bonus-clearing purposes. There's no point playing these games to clear bonus if I'm losing money in the process. I'm most comfortable playing NLHE SnGs, but the low stakes ones are terrible from a bonus-clearing perspective. So I need a new strategery. I need to figure out a way to clear as much of my remaining bonus as possible with as little risk to my bankroll as possible. So far I've tried .25-.50 Stud 8 (started off well but then started losing), .05-.10 NLHE cash (too high variance), .25-.50 LO8 (couldn't win at all) and now .05-.10 PLO8 (not winning and not enough big pots at 6-max to clear bonus efficiently). What the hell should I do?I'm thinking the best approach might be to return to .25-.50 LO8 and totally nut-peddle. I'm talking play uber-nitty PF and only continue past the flop with strong scoopable hands. Since FT calculates raked pots by dealt hands, not contribution, I don't actually have to see a single flop to get rake credit.Thoughts?
的ntegrity is doing the right thing, even if nobody is watching." - Anonymous

#51 Cappy37

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Posted 06 January 2009 - 07:31 PM

Consider HORSE. You can do your thing (nit up in LHE and Stud hi) and you'll be able to do *exactly* what you are looking for: Play Stud8 and O8b against people who are (on average) not very good at it. And do *not* be scared of razz, it's really easy to push people around based on boards, or even just nit up and still show great profits as well. Razz sections of Horse tables are notoriously soft, and you'll often win a nice 3-5 BB pot on the first hand of stud when someone doesn't realize the game swapped. Ditto for the first hand of Stud8. ;)Seriously give it a thought. I'll be more than willing to trade PMs back and forth if you wanna shove me a bunch of hands in stud hi and razz while you get accustomed to becoming a jack-of-all-trades. ;)On a normal day for me, I'll open 2 horse tables and up to 2 Lo8 tables. L08 is so valuable for multitabling since it's a flop game. If I cant find 2 horse tables to open, I'll troll stud8 or razz or l08. Generally the rule of thumb is: no more than 2 up-card info retention games. Don't be an idiot like me back in the day, trying to run Stud8, Razz, LO8, and Horse tourneys all at the same time. lol.Just a thought.Also, make sure you play some low limit tourneys for lo8/horse/stud8 etc.. There is *no* cheaper practicing for a poker player than those micro tourneys to just get in a *ton* of hands for a simple $1/$2 total wager. I wouldn't be half the player I was today if it wasn't for all those micro-tourneys. You've seen me post, imagine what I was like BEFORE I learned how to be "patient". rofl.
QUOTE (El Guapo @ Thursday, April 30th, 2009, 10:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Whatever angle it is, i am pretty sure it will be obtuse.


QUOTE (David_Sklansky @ Thursday, February 12th, 2009, 7:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I give you the gift of arousal and this is how you talk to me?

#52 rvrchsrhtr

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Posted 07 January 2009 - 05:40 AM

View Postjmbreslin, on Tuesday, January 6th, 2009, 9:18 PM, said:

Comments on this one? Small number of hands against villain but so far he was playing very loose passive.Full Tilt Pot-Limit Omaha Hi/Lo, $0.10 BB (5 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comHero (MP) ($8.60)Button ($4.30)SB ($8.65)BB ($3.95)UTG ($3.45)Preflop: Hero is MP with 2Posted Image, KPosted Image, 8Posted Image, APosted Image1 fold, Hero raises to $0.30, 2 folds, BB calls $0.20Flop: ($0.65) 4Posted Image, 2Posted Image, 9Posted Image (2 players)BB bets $0.10, Hero calls $0.10Turn: ($0.85) APosted Image (2 players)BB checks, Hero bets $0.85, BB calls $0.85River: ($2.55) 3Posted Image (2 players)BB bets $1.30, Hero foldsTotal pot: $2.55 | Rake: $0.25
I don't mind it you took a shot didn't work....shrug. Once you do something like this you don't look so nitty and can play verry nitty for awhile and get paid off. If villain checks river what do you do?
QUOTE (antistuff @ Wednesday, January 28th, 2009, 6:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
i told him that this hand makes him the worst player on the internet and that this was the gayest straight ever.

i then felt very clever.


Holy Crip it's a Crapple!

#53 jmbreslin

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Posted 07 January 2009 - 08:29 AM

View PostCappy37, on Tuesday, January 6th, 2009, 10:31 PM, said:

Consider HORSE. You can do your thing (nit up in LHE and Stud hi) and you'll be able to do *exactly* what you are looking for: Play Stud8 and O8b against people who are (on average) not very good at it. And do *not* be scared of razz, it's really easy to push people around based on boards, or even just nit up and still show great profits as well. Razz sections of Horse tables are notoriously soft, and you'll often win a nice 3-5 BB pot on the first hand of stud when someone doesn't realize the game swapped. Ditto for the first hand of Stud8. :club:
Interesting suggestion, but is this consistent with my goal of low-risk bonus-clearing? I suck at LHE and Stud hi, and Razz is pretty high variance, isn't it? I want to be able to get credit for high raked pots without losing buyins in the process.

Quote

Also, make sure you play some low limit tourneys for lo8/horse/stud8 etc..
I'd love to but I'm a recreational player with little time to play (typically 1.5-2 hrs in the evening). No time for MTTs, and the STTs for the other games just don't fill on FT.
的ntegrity is doing the right thing, even if nobody is watching." - Anonymous

#54 jmbreslin

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Posted 07 January 2009 - 08:31 AM

View Postrvrchsrhtr, on Wednesday, January 7th, 2009, 8:40 AM, said:

I don't mind it you took a shot didn't work....shrug. Once you do something like this you don't look so nitty and can play verry nitty for awhile and get paid off. If villain checks river what do you do?
Since the pot is relatively small I'd probably try to take it down figuring the 3 probably just ruined his hand.
的ntegrity is doing the right thing, even if nobody is watching." - Anonymous

#55 rvrchsrhtr

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Posted 07 January 2009 - 09:03 AM

View Postjmbreslin, on Wednesday, January 7th, 2009, 11:31 AM, said:

Since the pot is relatively small I'd probably try to take it down figuring the 3 probably just ruined his hand.
I don't know what I'd do in that spot. I don't know what he could call that turn with other than the nutz. such a weird spot for him to lead out on the river the more I look at it.
QUOTE (antistuff @ Wednesday, January 28th, 2009, 6:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
i told him that this hand makes him the worst player on the internet and that this was the gayest straight ever.

i then felt very clever.


Holy Crip it's a Crapple!

#56 jmbreslin

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Posted 07 January 2009 - 09:41 AM

As I've said before, it is extremely difficult to analyze play at this level because opponents play such a wide range of hands and play very unpredictably postflop. I thought for sure that after minleading the flop and checking the turn he was done with the hand, which is why I thought I could take it down. I was quite surprised when he called. I think you're right though that he must be nutty after check-calling that turn and then leading into me on the river. Either A5xx or 35xx.
的ntegrity is doing the right thing, even if nobody is watching." - Anonymous

#57 jmbreslin

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Posted 07 January 2009 - 01:27 PM

Before I try HORSE I'm going to take a shot at my LO8 nut-peddling strategy. Here's the strategy, which I'm going to post-it to my monitor:Hand selectionOnly play the following hand combinations:1) A2 + a 3rd wheel card and/or high potential (high pairs, broadway combos) - e.g., A23x, A25T, A2KK2) Suited Aces + a wheel card - e.g., A9s24, A5sxx, AQs373) 23 + a 3rd wheel card only if in late positionI'm guessing that should result in a VPIP of roughly 10% or so. If I'm playing higher than 15% I'm probably too loose.Postflop- Only bet nut hands, big combo draws, or good nut low draws with high potential (e.g., A23K on a K57 flop)- Only draw to nut hands- Only draw to the bare nut low if pot is very multi-way- If none of the above conditions hold, check-foldThoughts?
的ntegrity is doing the right thing, even if nobody is watching." - Anonymous

#58 Cappy37

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Posted 07 January 2009 - 03:09 PM

View Postjmbreslin, on Wednesday, January 7th, 2009, 8:29 AM, said:

Interesting suggestion, but is this consistent with my goal of low-risk bonus-clearing? I suck at LHE and Stud hi, and Razz is pretty high variance, isn't it? I want to be able to get credit for high raked pots without losing buyins in the process.
Poker is variance. You will win more than your share in Razz just by turning up the aggression. You build big pots in essential coin flip situations a lot, but you pick up a ton of dead money through dragging pots/timely opponent folds. LHE isn't anything to be scared of. It's not NL, and I'm sure you are solid at people on ranges. Just like in all things limit, make some serious hero calls. Also, remember that Stud Hi and LHE are zero-sum games, so you are always getting full pot odds on your draws/bluff catchers.If you are seriously *just* after bonus clearing, 4-table Lo8. If you can't break even 4 tabling LO8 with your playstyle after a couple weeks, I dunno what to tell ya :club:

View Postjmbreslin, on Wednesday, January 7th, 2009, 8:29 AM, said:

I'd love to but I'm a recreational player with little time to play (typically 1.5-2 hrs in the evening). No time for MTTs, and the STTs for the other games just don't fill on FT.
yup, sounds familiar. Which is a shame, cuz $1 LO8 and Horse MTTs are Stars are right up your alley. On a side note, even without rakeback, it just seems most people I run into have good to great returns on Stars and struggle clearing bonus on FTP. For the life of me I can't figure out why that is.
QUOTE (El Guapo @ Thursday, April 30th, 2009, 10:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Whatever angle it is, i am pretty sure it will be obtuse.


QUOTE (David_Sklansky @ Thursday, February 12th, 2009, 7:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I give you the gift of arousal and this is how you talk to me?

#59 Cappy37

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Posted 07 January 2009 - 03:21 PM

View Postjmbreslin, on Wednesday, January 7th, 2009, 1:27 PM, said:

Before I try HORSE I'm going to take a shot at my LO8 nut-peddling strategy. Here's the strategy, which I'm going to post-it to my monitor:Hand selectionOnly play the following hand combinations:1) A2 + a 3rd wheel card and/or high potential (high pairs, broadway combos) - e.g., A23x, A25T, A2KK2) Suited Aces + a wheel card - e.g., A9s24, A5sxx, AQs373) 23 + a 3rd wheel card only if in late positionI'm guessing that should result in a VPIP of roughly 10% or so. If I'm playing higher than 15% I'm probably too loose.Postflop- Only bet nut hands, big combo draws, or good nut low draws with high potential (e.g., A23K on a K57 flop)- Only draw to nut hands- Only draw to the bare nut low if pot is very multi-way- If none of the above conditions hold, check-foldThoughts?
4. ) High connecting cards for a single bet.5. ) Try not to go broke flopping sets in 6-way pots.I do like your first 3 rules.PostflopBet any time you have decent equity in a pot and a bet can potentially narrow the field. Remember that a flop lead + a turn lead can completely win the hand for you.Realize that my A23K hand has little to no long-term high potential on a K57 flop with many villains.Pick your spots, change your gears. Each table plays different. One's always a limpfest, One caps 5 ways PF, and one you can absolutely run over all day long. I think it's always a good thing to preach and practice discipline, but realize that poker fortunes aren't made through flopping perfect with A2 or getting dealt AA23.. It's all the non-showdown pot drags, the draws with insane pot odds (+implied) that you make, building pots PF that you have great 2-way hands in, and attacking any flop with 1 or less low cards in it (and no aces) to push fields of 3 or fewer out. The biggest key to LO8 is hand selection, and you already do that extremely well. Picking your hand is half the battle, it's the evolution in your game of "what you do with the hand you do pick" that's gonna make you filthy rich.BTW- any type of ETA on how long you are stuck bonus clearing for? Sounds like it's making you miserable and hasn't been worth it.
QUOTE (El Guapo @ Thursday, April 30th, 2009, 10:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Whatever angle it is, i am pretty sure it will be obtuse.


QUOTE (David_Sklansky @ Thursday, February 12th, 2009, 7:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I give you the gift of arousal and this is how you talk to me?

#60 jmbreslin

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Posted 07 January 2009 - 05:45 PM

View PostCappy37, on Wednesday, January 7th, 2009, 7:09 PM, said:

Poker is variance. You will win more than your share in Razz just by turning up the aggression. You build big pots in essential coin flip situations a lot, but you pick up a ton of dead money through dragging pots/timely opponent folds. LHE isn't anything to be scared of. It's not NL, and I'm sure you are solid at people on ranges. Just like in all things limit, make some serious hero calls. Also, remember that Stud Hi and LHE are zero-sum games, so you are always getting full pot odds on your draws/bluff catchers.If you are seriously *just* after bonus clearing, 4-table Lo8. If you can't break even 4 tabling LO8 with your playstyle after a couple weeks, I dunno what to tell ya :club:
Yes, at this point I am just clearing bonus. I moved a small amount over to FT ($200) so I'm not exactly rolled to be playing the kinds of tables I've been playing. That's why reducing variance during this period is so important.
的ntegrity is doing the right thing, even if nobody is watching." - Anonymous




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