Jump to content


Suited Slick


  • Please log in to reply
138 replies to this topic

#21 TrueAce13

TrueAce13

    FCP Resident Donk

  • Members
  • 4,853 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ohio
  • Favorite Poker Game:PLO NLHE

Posted 15 December 2008 - 11:16 AM

Snap ship. I never fold something this huge at 10nl
Pokerstars: TrueAce13 (Willard)
FT: TrueAce13
My First Poker Blog, please read and help me get better!

#22 mtdesmoines

mtdesmoines

    Poker Forum Veteran

  • Members
  • 9,980 posts

Posted 15 December 2008 - 12:34 PM

To the original question PF: shoveTo the question on the flop: shoveOMG you nits. really.
Somewhere Jimmy Carter is smiling because he knows that he is no longer the worst President of the modern era

#23 pokerinc

pokerinc

    insomniac

  • Members
  • 1,641 posts

Posted 15 December 2008 - 02:42 PM

there's really no folding w/ that flop that's the nut flop for you. Again, the guy sat and 4 bet in his first lap at the table, you're only dead to aa so it's a snap shove pre imo, this is his first hand and I came up through 10nl, I saw guys sit and decide to just keep raising their first few hands.On the flop I prefer shoving to calling, but understand the merit of a flat. IMO get it in.
Now working and pokering. It's like two incomes in one.
UFC July 4th weekend. Vegas!

#24 Giggidy

Giggidy

    BR Building

  • Members
  • 1,657 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Land of Enger
  • Interests:Cars, Poker, Visual Effects
  • Favorite Poker Game:HU4Busto

Posted 15 December 2008 - 03:29 PM

View Postmtdesmoines, on Monday, December 15th, 2008, 8:34 PM, said:

To the original question PF: shoveTo the question on the flop: shove

Graphs, text and probably some half naked chics - The blog of a micro-cash douche: http://giggidyfcp.blogspot.com/ <<<<----- Updated 07/02 - Volume
--------

Get juicy rakeback @ Bodog, Full Tilt, UB, Cake etc etc here

#25 babylondonks

babylondonks

    I have had a perfectly wonderful evening

  • Members
  • 4,104 posts
  • Location:but this wasn't it.

Posted 15 December 2008 - 03:39 PM

View PostNoBBiR, on Monday, December 15th, 2008, 4:45 PM, said:

If you're flipping 98% of the time, then it's a snap shove. If he ever folds a pair 99+ when you shove then shoving >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>folding/calling.While I agree that I have rarely run into incompetent normal sized 4-bettors at 10nl, folding still seems super weak. We have no idea what this guy is doing, he could be drunk and laughing with his friends 4betting you with 72o. I really feel like reads would be necessary to dump this, especially nonchalantly like it seems is the consensus.
Flipping at best 98% of the time

View Postrdtedm, on Tuesday, December 16th, 2008, 3:38 AM, said:

I didn't really consider folding with no reads.. Is that bad? Here's how the action played out:PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (5 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comsaw flop | saw showdownUTG ($7.50)MP ($10)Hero (Button) ($20.30)SB ($10.20)BB ($14.20)Preflop: Hero is Button with K :ts, A :D1 fold, MP raises to $0.40, Hero raises to $1.10, 2 folds, MP raises to $3.50, Hero calls $2.40Flop: ($7.15) 8 :D, Q :4h, A :club: (2 players)MP bets $3.50, Hero ...Once again, I think folding here is incorrect. Do I flat or shove the flop? What's a reasonable range for villain?
This is a turbo fist-pump shove once we hit out dream flop.

#26 cubsfan44

cubsfan44

    Poker Winnings? Whats that?

  • Members
  • 7,034 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Chicago
  • Favorite Poker Game:The Cadillac

Posted 15 December 2008 - 04:13 PM

View PostShark527, on Sunday, December 14th, 2008, 7:36 PM, said:

First hand, already being up a buy in, I'm sticking him in.
Awesome!!

View PostNo_Neck, on Monday, December 15th, 2008, 10:50 AM, said:

calling is pretty horrible IMO shove or fold.
This

View PostHollywoodAFD, on Monday, December 15th, 2008, 11:49 AM, said:

Well... I said shove him or at least call... fold isn't something I would do here.I don't think shove or fold are the best options... 1) Shove2) Call3) FoldIMO
Calling is very bad. If you want to continue shove preflop.If villian shoved over our 3bet (which is what your drunken 7/2's would do) Id insta call but he 4bet us. Id guess Villians range is very heavily weighted to AA/KK/. I do not play 10nl though so take it at what its worth.
What if the 'HOKEY POKEY' really IS what it's ALL about?

#27 cubsfan44

cubsfan44

    Poker Winnings? Whats that?

  • Members
  • 7,034 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Chicago
  • Favorite Poker Game:The Cadillac

Posted 15 December 2008 - 04:17 PM

View Postbabylondonks, on Monday, December 15th, 2008, 5:39 PM, said:

This is a turbo fist-pump shove once we hit out dream flop.
Id probably just wait till the turn to get it in now.
What if the 'HOKEY POKEY' really IS what it's ALL about?

#28 RDog

RDog

    I'm Barry Sanders bitches!!!

  • Members
  • 10,919 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Orange County, CA

Posted 15 December 2008 - 09:21 PM

View PostHollywoodAFD, on Sunday, December 14th, 2008, 6:37 PM, said:

It's not a fold.... push him.Call at the least.
God no. This is by far the worst action of the 3.

#29 RDog

RDog

    I'm Barry Sanders bitches!!!

  • Members
  • 10,919 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Orange County, CA

Posted 15 December 2008 - 09:30 PM

Calling 4 bets with AK is pretty horrible pretty much always and especially 100 BB's deep. You miss way too many flops and those you hit AND you are ahead, Villain probably won't stack off on. I honestly don't know the pre-flop aggression at 10 NL but I know that at like 25 and 50 people don't stack off very light pre. My advice is that if you aren't going to shove over a 4 bet then don't 3 bet. Nothing wrong with flat calling AK to a single raise.Does make me happy that 2 of my horses pointed that out in this thread though :club:.

#30 rdtedm

rdtedm

    2009?

  • Members
  • 2,605 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Colorado
  • Favorite Poker Game:NLHE

Posted 15 December 2008 - 10:39 PM

View PostRDog, on Monday, December 15th, 2008, 10:30 PM, said:

Calling 4 bets with AK is pretty horrible pretty much always and especially 100 BB's deep. You miss way too many flops and those you hit AND you are ahead, Villain probably won't stack off on. I honestly don't know the pre-flop aggression at 10 NL but I know that at like 25 and 50 people don't stack off very light pre. My advice is that if you aren't going to shove over a 4 bet then don't 3 bet. Nothing wrong with flat calling AK to a single raise.Does make me happy that 2 of my horses pointed that out in this thread though :club:.
This is why I posted the hand. I don't know how to play AK preflop well when there's action. Thanks!

#31 NoBBiR

NoBBiR

    F34l2 Durrrr

  • Members
  • 3,522 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Binghamton NY
  • Interests:Poker.
  • Favorite Poker Game:No Lemon Tennis Hold Me Tightly.

Posted 16 December 2008 - 12:50 PM

View Postbabylondonks, on Monday, December 15th, 2008, 4:39 PM, said:

Flipping at best 98% of the time
We're never flipping less than 80% of the time here. It's still a shove. We have them dominated some small percent of the time, and we are dominated some small percentage of the time. Folding this at 10nl preflop is just baddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd. It's so nitty.
"How do they put the ****ing queen in the window?"

Darvin Moon, I hope you die in a grease fire.

#32 RDog

RDog

    I'm Barry Sanders bitches!!!

  • Members
  • 10,919 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Orange County, CA

Posted 16 December 2008 - 01:01 PM

View PostNoBBiR, on Tuesday, December 16th, 2008, 12:50 PM, said:

We're never flipping less than 80% of the time here. It's still a shove. We have them dominated some small percent of the time, and we are dominated some small percentage of the time. Folding this at 10nl preflop is just baddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd. It's so nitty.
You say that like being really nitty at the lower levels is a bad thing. Folding AK to a 4 bet is never going to be badddddddddddddddddd. It might not be optimal in some situations but I have seen enough 25 and 50 NL hands to know that at least at those levels, continually getting AK in pre against 100 BB stacks is probably not good. My only assumption is that 10 NL probably plays similar.

#33 jmbreslin

jmbreslin

    Poker Forum Veteran

  • Members
  • 4,788 posts
  • Favorite Poker Game:8-Game

Posted 16 December 2008 - 01:44 PM

View PostRDog, on Tuesday, December 16th, 2008, 4:01 PM, said:

You say that like being really nitty at the lower levels is a bad thing. Folding AK to a 4 bet is never going to be badddddddddddddddddd.
Finally some rational thinking. If you can dominate micro stakes with solid play, why take these kinds of chances? I'm amazed at how many posts I read in this forum that basically amount to, "You could be behind but villain could be drunk and folding is too weak, so just get it all in." There is absolutely no need to be flipping for stacks against this level of competition, unless you just like to gamble.
“Integrity is doing the right thing, even if nobody is watching." - Anonymous

#34 RDog

RDog

    I'm Barry Sanders bitches!!!

  • Members
  • 10,919 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Orange County, CA

Posted 16 December 2008 - 02:42 PM

View Postjmbreslin, on Tuesday, December 16th, 2008, 1:44 PM, said:

Finally some rational thinking. If you can dominate micro stakes with solid play, why take these kinds of chances? I'm amazed at how many posts I read in this forum that basically amount to, "You could be behind but villain could be drunk and folding is too weak, so just get it all in." There is absolutely no need to be flipping for stacks against this level of competition, unless you just like to gamble.
Probably one of the reasons I see soooooo many people moving through the limits with horrible cases of FPS too. It's like being nitty is a 4 letter word. People just start thinking "well, I don't want to be a nit, so I will be........aggressive!!!" which for the most part probably works at lower levels. Then they get to levels where people can actually hand read and just can't figure out why people aren't folding to their blind aggression without any thought as to "what exactly am I repping?". I see it allllllllll the time. It isn't a coincidence that sometimes the hardest players for me to play against are many times those that can't beat that limit and end up moving down. It surely puts you in tough spots and you have to play high variance poker. In the end though..........hard to play against does not always equal winning.In the end, my advice to any of you grinding the lower limits, play solid winning poker and don't try to outplay everyone and win every pot.

#35 mtdesmoines

mtdesmoines

    Poker Forum Veteran

  • Members
  • 9,980 posts

Posted 16 December 2008 - 03:07 PM

View Postpokerinc, on Sunday, December 14th, 2008, 6:15 PM, said:

pssh...he just sat it's a shove if that's his first hand for sure.
I think a lot of people are missing this ^^^^^ point. Some people say we need a read. This action on the first hand IS the read. If villain caught AA or KK on first hand vs. our AK, then so be it.

View PostDictius, on Sunday, December 14th, 2008, 8:55 PM, said:

People don't 4bet light at $10NL but a lot of players will get it all in pf with something like AJ or 88 thinking they have the best hand. I think I fold the first time and if I see him 4 bet a couple of times in the next few orbits, try and get it in with him pf a bit lighter than usual.
Why would you wait to get it in lighter than usual when you have this spot with a very strong hand?I read a lot of these replies and I just don't think there's a need to wait. There's little chance he dominates us. If we ARE flipping, it is a SNAPAUTOCALL.
Somewhere Jimmy Carter is smiling because he knows that he is no longer the worst President of the modern era

#36 cubsfan44

cubsfan44

    Poker Winnings? Whats that?

  • Members
  • 7,034 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Chicago
  • Favorite Poker Game:The Cadillac

Posted 16 December 2008 - 04:27 PM

View Postmtdesmoines, on Tuesday, December 16th, 2008, 5:07 PM, said:

I think a lot of people are missing this ^^^^^ point. Some people say we need a read. This action on the first hand IS the read. If villain caught AA or KK on first hand vs. our AK, then so be it.Why would you wait to get it in lighter than usual when you have this spot with a very strong hand?I read a lot of these replies and I just don't think there's a need to wait. There's little chance he dominates us. If we ARE flipping, it is a SNAPAUTOCALL.
I highly highly doubt this is true
What if the 'HOKEY POKEY' really IS what it's ALL about?

#37 jmbreslin

jmbreslin

    Poker Forum Veteran

  • Members
  • 4,788 posts
  • Favorite Poker Game:8-Game

Posted 16 December 2008 - 05:27 PM

View Postmtdesmoines, on Tuesday, December 16th, 2008, 7:07 PM, said:

I read a lot of these replies and I just don't think there's a need to wait. There's little chance he dominates us. If we ARE flipping, it is a SNAPAUTOCALL.
Please explain why. If I'm playing against competition I can beat, why would I snapcall into a flip for my stack?
“Integrity is doing the right thing, even if nobody is watching." - Anonymous

#38 babylondonks

babylondonks

    I have had a perfectly wonderful evening

  • Members
  • 4,104 posts
  • Location:but this wasn't it.

Posted 16 December 2008 - 06:44 PM

View Postjmbreslin, on Wednesday, December 17th, 2008, 12:27 PM, said:

Please explain why. If I'm playing against competition I can beat, why would I snapcall into a flip for my stack?
Because we've already invested enough money into the pot that a flip is +ev for us. But the point is we're only flipping against QQ here, which is hardly ever. NoBB, what in the world gives you the idea that this is QQ and maybe JJ on the very very best of days 80% of the time? I'd say it's the opposite and is in fact Aces and Kings 80% of the time and QQ/AK/JJ the other 20%

#39 BaseJester

BaseJester

    Poker Forum Veteran

  • Members
  • 2,109 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Castle
  • Interests:Juggling. Ventriloquism. Story-telling.
  • Favorite Poker Game:The quintain

Posted 16 December 2008 - 07:11 PM

View Postjmbreslin, on Tuesday, December 16th, 2008, 8:27 PM, said:

Please explain why. If I'm playing against competition I can beat, why would I snapcall into a flip for my stack?
First, see FAQ.

Quote

Common MisconceptionsWait for a better spot.Usually the better spot will be there regardless of what we do in the current hand. While it's possible that some odd metagame concern links the hands, in the vast majority of the cases we should be looking to maximize our expected value in the hand in isolation.
Second, what babylondonks said. Although, I'd rather say "the pot is large enough" rather than say "we've invested enough", so as to not falsely make distinction between the money the hero has contributed to the pot and that the villains have contributed.
If everybody is thinking the same thing, then somebody isn't thinking.
- General George Patton

#40 Solar

Solar

    Poker Forum Groupie

  • Members
  • 590 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Christchurch, New Zealand
  • Favorite Poker Game:NLHE

Posted 16 December 2008 - 08:39 PM

I'm a super nit but I still ship it pf.
Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm.
Winston Churchill

El Skipper




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users