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#1 rdtedm

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Posted 14 December 2008 - 02:17 PM

Opponent just sat.PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (5 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comUTG ($7.50)MP ($10)Hero (Button) ($20.30)SB ($10.20)BB ($14.20)Preflop: Hero is Button with K :club:, A :ts1 fold, MP raises to $0.40, Hero raises to $1.10, 2 folds, MP raises to $3.50, Hero ???

#2 cubsfan44

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Posted 14 December 2008 - 02:41 PM

View Postrdtedm, on Sunday, December 14th, 2008, 4:17 PM, said:

Opponent just sat.PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (5 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comUTG ($7.50)MP ($10)Hero (Button) ($20.30)SB ($10.20)BB ($14.20)Preflop: Hero is Button with K :club:, A :ts1 fold, MP raises to $0.40, Hero raises to $1.10, 2 folds, MP raises to $3.50, Hero ???
At 10nl I believe this is a fold
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#3 babylondonks

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Posted 14 December 2008 - 04:12 PM

^|yes

#4 pokerinc

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Posted 14 December 2008 - 05:15 PM

pssh...he just sat it's a shove if that's his first hand for sure.
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#5 Shark527

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Posted 14 December 2008 - 05:36 PM

View Postcubsfan44, on Sunday, December 14th, 2008, 3:41 PM, said:

At 10nl I believe this is a fold
Compared to what limit being a call?First hand, already being up a buy in, I'm sticking him in.
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#6 babylondonks

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Posted 14 December 2008 - 06:01 PM

View PostShark527, on Monday, December 15th, 2008, 12:36 PM, said:

Compared to what limit being a call?First hand, already being up a buy in, I'm sticking him in.
Whatttttttt? What does being up a buyin have to do with anything?As to the first statement, I'd venture a guess and say this becomes a call at around 100nl or so where people balance their 4bet/shove ranges a lot more by doing it lighter.

#7 HollywoodAFD

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Posted 14 December 2008 - 06:37 PM

It's not a fold.... push him.Call at the least.





"If it wasn't for luck I'd win every one" -- Phil Hellmuth

QUOTE (Suited_Up @ Tuesday, July 1st, 2008, 9:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If Hollywood is fake though, I might know who it is. If not, then I'm scared for the world.



QUOTE (ShakeZuma @ Tuesday, March 18th, 2008, 5:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
hey leave hollywoodafd alone. he is a quality poster and can post any time he wants.


QUOTE (LongLiveYorke @ Friday, February 26th, 2010, 10:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
lol, I agree with Hollywood... weeeee

#8 Dictius

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Posted 14 December 2008 - 07:55 PM

People don't 4bet light at $10NL but a lot of players will get it all in pf with something like AJ or 88 thinking they have the best hand. I think I fold the first time and if I see him 4 bet a couple of times in the next few orbits, try and get it in with him pf a bit lighter than usual.

#9 NoBBiR

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Posted 14 December 2008 - 09:28 PM

Honestly, I have no idea how I would ever fold this. I snap put him in without a read at 10nl where people play like morons every possible second they get.
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#10 babylondonks

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Posted 14 December 2008 - 09:40 PM

View PostNoBBiR, on Monday, December 15th, 2008, 4:28 PM, said:

Honestly, I have no idea how I would ever fold this. I snap put him in without a read at 10nl where people play like morons every possible second they get.
As much as I enjoy sweeping generalisations. You're probably flipping at best 98% of the time here

#11 NoBBiR

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Posted 14 December 2008 - 09:45 PM

View Postbabylondonks, on Sunday, December 14th, 2008, 10:40 PM, said:

As much as I enjoy sweeping generalisations. You're probably flipping at best 98% of the time here
If you're flipping 98% of the time, then it's a snap shove. If he ever folds a pair 99+ when you shove then shoving >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>folding/calling.While I agree that I have rarely run into incompetent normal sized 4-bettors at 10nl, folding still seems super weak. We have no idea what this guy is doing, he could be drunk and laughing with his friends 4betting you with 72o. I really feel like reads would be necessary to dump this, especially nonchalantly like it seems is the consensus.
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#12 rdtedm

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 08:38 AM

I didn't really consider folding with no reads.. Is that bad? Here's how the action played out:PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (5 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comsaw flop | saw showdownUTG ($7.50)MP ($10)Hero (Button) ($20.30)SB ($10.20)BB ($14.20)Preflop: Hero is Button with K :ts, A :D1 fold, MP raises to $0.40, Hero raises to $1.10, 2 folds, MP raises to $3.50, Hero calls $2.40Flop: ($7.15) 8 :D, Q :4h, A :club: (2 players)MP bets $3.50, Hero ...Once again, I think folding here is incorrect. Do I flat or shove the flop? What's a reasonable range for villain?

#13 No_Neck

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 08:50 AM

View PostHollywoodAFD, on Sunday, December 14th, 2008, 9:37 PM, said:

Call at the least.
calling is pretty horrible IMO shove or fold.

#14 rdtedm

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 09:05 AM

View PostNo_Neck, on Monday, December 15th, 2008, 9:50 AM, said:

calling is pretty horrible IMO shove or fold.
Why?

#15 No_Neck

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 09:07 AM

View Postrdtedm, on Monday, December 15th, 2008, 12:05 PM, said:

Why?
it is large a % of your stack to just smooth call

#16 SeattlePoker

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 09:10 AM

View PostNo_Neck, on Monday, December 15th, 2008, 8:50 AM, said:

calling is pretty horrible IMO shove or fold.
Once you are to this point, shoving or calling is fine. You basically have your dream flop, and if you're beat right now (i.e. he hit a set or even two pair) you still have a ton of outs with the club draw. More likely he has nothing and you've got him drawing almost dead. And if you just call, he'll probably give you his last $3 on the turn. If you shove, you might not get that from him.
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#17 jmbreslin

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 09:30 AM

View PostNoBBiR, on Monday, December 15th, 2008, 1:45 AM, said:

If you're flipping 98% of the time, then it's a snap shove. If he ever folds a pair 99+ when you shove then shoving >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>folding/calling.While I agree that I have rarely run into incompetent normal sized 4-bettors at 10nl, folding still seems super weak. We have no idea what this guy is doing, he could be drunk and laughing with his friends 4betting you with 72o. I really feel like reads would be necessary to dump this, especially nonchalantly like it seems is the consensus.
Funny, I think the opposite - reads would be necessary for me to consider putting him all in here. Why put yourself in that position against a complete unknown? Because he could be drunk? The 4-bet is incredibly strong here. Notice that villain bought in for the full amount, which suggests he's not a crazed hit-and-run type of player - those guys usually buy in for a small amount and then get it in with a wide range. I would be completely shocked if his range was anything wider than QQ-AA/AK.
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#18 HollywoodAFD

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 09:49 AM

View PostNo_Neck, on Monday, December 15th, 2008, 10:50 AM, said:

calling is pretty horrible IMO shove or fold.
Well... I said shove him or at least call... fold isn't something I would do here.I don't think shove or fold are the best options... 1) Shove2) Call3) FoldIMO





"If it wasn't for luck I'd win every one" -- Phil Hellmuth

QUOTE (Suited_Up @ Tuesday, July 1st, 2008, 9:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If Hollywood is fake though, I might know who it is. If not, then I'm scared for the world.



QUOTE (ShakeZuma @ Tuesday, March 18th, 2008, 5:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
hey leave hollywoodafd alone. he is a quality poster and can post any time he wants.


QUOTE (LongLiveYorke @ Friday, February 26th, 2010, 10:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
lol, I agree with Hollywood... weeeee

#19 No_Neck

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 10:01 AM

View PostHollywoodAFD, on Monday, December 15th, 2008, 12:49 PM, said:

Well... I said shove him or at least call... fold isn't something I would do here.I don't think shove or fold are the best options... 1) Shove2) Call3) FoldIMO
yeah I think there is only one play really here, IMO and that is to shove, without a read. If you knew he was a nit you could fold.

#20 Sheiky

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 10:21 AM

View Postbabylondonks, on Monday, December 15th, 2008, 2:01 AM, said:

Whatttttttt? What does being up a buyin have to do with anything?As to the first statement, I'd venture a guess and say this becomes a call at around 100nl or so where people balance their 4bet/shove ranges a lot more by doing it lighter.
There's a fair few players i'd continue against here at $25NL, at $50NL I would say folding would probably be a clear last as standard.




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