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Another Checkup Hand

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#1 moogash


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Posted 08 December 2008 - 09:11 PM

PokerStars Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comPreflop: Hero is CO with JPosted Image, 10Posted Image3 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero calls, Button calls, SB calls, BB checksFlop: (6 SB) 6Posted Image, JPosted Image, 3Posted Image (6 players)SB checks, BB checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks, Hero bets, Button calls, SB calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls, MP3 callsTurn: (5.5 BB) 8Posted Image (5 players)SB checks, MP2 checks, MP3 bets, Hero raises, 1 fold, SB 3-bets, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero foldsTotal pot: $8.25 (16.5 BB)Preflop call ok?Turn raise ok, or is the pot too small?I was planning on raising, calling down a 3bet from MP3 (should I have folded to it?) and checking behind on the river if called/check

#2 pokerinc



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Posted 08 December 2008 - 10:36 PM

I think the turn 3 bets no good, what's the reasoning for it?
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#3 moogash


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Posted 08 December 2008 - 10:42 PM

View Postpokerinc, on Monday, December 8th, 2008, 10:36 PM, said:

I think the turn 3 bets no good, what's the reasoning for it?
My idea behind the turn raise was to knock some people out of the pot and thus increase my equity (knock out overcards)

#4 MovingIn


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Posted 08 December 2008 - 11:32 PM

Turn raise gives away BB: if anyone has the flush or a strong FD, they're not going anywhere. The only overcards you'll fold are hands that don't match the FD, and even if you knock them out, you're not knocking out better hands, which are too likely in a multiway turn for this board.

#5 Tactical Bear

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Posted 09 December 2008 - 11:46 AM

Raising this turn is a very, very bad decision. There's a good chance on this board that someone in EP is looking check-raise you anyway. Depending on the players, I probably call the turn and plan on folding to a raise, or fold to the turn lead if I can put the checkers or the MP leader on the right range.Looking to fold-out better hands (or hands with lots of equity) is smart, but this isn't the place to do it. You're very rarely in good enough shape here to justify putting in 2BB even if that DOES get it heads up.
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#6 antistuff


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Posted 09 December 2008 - 02:09 PM

when mp3 bets the turn i almost want to fold.
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#7 DinkDonk


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Posted 09 December 2008 - 07:03 PM

Yeah, I'm with Wang and Anti on this one. I like your thought process of wanting to thin the field in a relatively big pot, but you simply don't have enough equity here. I think you have to either call the turn bet and fold to a raise or fold immediately, and I lean toward the latter.

#8 TheCinciKid


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Posted 13 December 2008 - 02:26 PM

Why are you raising this turn???Everybody and their grandmother called your flop bet. Your hand was almost certainly good there, but now the flush came, someone leads into you and you raise. Spew city, IMO. In fact, I lean towards folding this. At most you call, but you're not closing the action, you're probably going to have to fold to a raise behind you so I don't really like calling and I think you have to fold. I don't see what you're beating here. If you do fold the best hand, the pot is small enough that it's not a huge mistake and you'll eventually learn that MP3 is a tard and be able to exploit him later. He'd have to be pretty terrible to lead this turn with anything you can beat.
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#9 CoranMoran


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Posted 16 December 2008 - 01:06 PM

You flop Top Pair with an average kicker.Against 5 opponents, that is often not enough.But we have to bet, so we do.And we get 4 callers.This is bad.One the Villains could be ahead of us already.And some are certainly on the draws that are out there.The main draw hits on the turn.Against 4 opponents, we are rarely ahead.And it doesn't take long for someone to tell us this is true.MP3's funky lead bet is certainly claiming he has better than 1-pair.And with so many people behind us, we have to abandon this one.I fold the turn.But I have found some of the comments so far interesting.


I probably call the turn and plan on folding to a raise
The idea of calling the turn makes little sense to me.What is the purpose?Of course we will fold to a raise.But what if no raise comes?Do we plan on calling a river bet too even if there are several opponents still behind us?MP3 is usually ahead of us already.And one of the other guys could be waiting to raise on the river.So calling the turn can easily lead to losing 2 bets.And IF we are really willing to risk 2 more bets on this hand, then I would much rather put them both in on the turn with a raise.The advantages seem clear:- We drastically increase our winning chances by clearing out several small flush draws, smaller made pairs, and overcards.- We gain value from the big flush draws while they are still chasing.- We buy the button for the river so that we can take a free showdown and risk no more.If you happen to be ahead (which presumably is the only reason you insisted on playing on) you will be outdrawn on the river an enormous amount of time against so many opponents.So thinning the field is a must if we are playing on.Point: With a marginal hand against several opponents on a dangerous board, just fold the turn.But if you insist on carrying on, push the turn like you did.--CM

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