224 replies to this topic

[navybuttons]

is it possible that "evolution" and "god" are just two different names for the same thing?

please show work.

[Spademan]

is it possible that "evolution" and "god" are just two different names for the same thing?

please show work.

[crowTrobot]

is it possible that "evolution" and "god" are just two different names for the same thing?

whoa.. that's deep, dude. pass the bong.

[Balloon guy]

is it possible that "evolution" and "god" are just two different names for the same thing?

please show work.

I know some Christians try to allow for God using evolution to create the earth.

Me, I'm a new earth person.

[navybuttons]

I know some Christians try to allow for God using evolution to create the earth.

Me, I'm a new earth person.

how do you define "god" to yourself?

[crowTrobot]

Me, I'm a new earth person.

new earth? is that anything like new age?

[vbnautilus]

Certainly there are conceptions of god which are compatible with evolution.

But two different words for the same thing? Not without changing the meanings of one or the other beyond recognition.

[HollywoodAFD]

is it possible that "evolution" and "god" are just two different names for the same thing?

please show work.

I never know if you are serious or just trying to start an E-fight... but I'll play along.

Short answer: YES

Show my work:
Is it possible God created 'something" and gave this "something" the ability to evolve? Yes... or I should say ..I believe so. To answer the biblical counter question of "It says in the Bible that God created MAN in his image" I would say that it is possible that is what God explained to "man" once "man" was evolved into a free thinking creature.
Keep in mind...I am a Christian but I still believe that it's not only possible but highly likely that God did this and doesn't feel any duty to explain everything to us.

If God created all then who created God?
I've explained this to my kids like this: Our minds aren't capable of understanding everything.... as much as we want to believe that we can figure out and decipher anything on our own.... it's just not possible for us to understand somethings. Much like if you took a DVD and put it into the VCR player.... the VCR players can't understand what that DVD is...even though the DVD information is very real.

Back on track.... to take it to the simplest element... I do not think or believe that the entire solar system and beyond could have happened totally by chance. I do not believe that man could have evolved from a single cell organism totally by chance. I do believe that God or possibly Gods had a hand in creating the beginning of all that we know.

Speaking of pot talk.... it's extremely possible and highly likely that everything we know... our planet and solar system is a tiny speck living inside a much greater being.

Does God actually control everything from birth to death? I don't believe so. I think God put the wheels in motion and is probably seeing how things turn out. When it looks like things aren't turning out the way he planned.... flush the experiment and start over. (The Great Flood)

Everything I have stated here is my belief so before the haters and non-believers decide to pile on with what they know to be certain, please refer to the word believe.
Also no need to question my being a Christian and having a thinking mind. Believe it or not... unlike popular belief...we aren't all sheep.

[crowTrobot]

Show my work:
Is it possible God created 'something" and gave this "something" the ability to evolve? Yes... or I should say ..I believe so. To answer the biblical counter question of "It says in the Bible that God created MAN in his image" I would say that it is possible that is what God explained to "man" once "man" was evolved into a free thinking creature.
Keep in mind...I am a Christian but I still believe that it's not only possible but highly likely that God did this and doesn't feel any duty to explain everything to us.

If God created all then who created God?
I've explained this to my kids like this: Our minds aren't capable of understanding everything.... as much as we want to believe that we can figure out and decipher anything on our own.... it's just not possible for us to understand somethings. Much like if you took a DVD and put it into the VCR player.... the VCR players can't understand what that DVD is...even though the DVD information is very real.

Back on track.... to take it to the simplest element... I do not think or believe that the entire solar system and beyond could have happened totally by chance. I do not believe that man could have evolved from a single cell organism totally by chance. I do believe that God or possibly Gods had a hand in creating the beginning of all that we know.

your double standard is showing. if you aren't capable of understanding everything about god why do you think you are capable of understanding everything about nature?

[navybuttons]

Certainly there are conceptions of god which are compatible with evolution.

But two different words for the same thing? Not without changing the meanings of one or the other beyond recognition.

god: creator of the universe. he createst the fruit of the vine.

evolution: creator of the universe. he createst the fruit of the vine.

yes, most understand evolution as only a biological process. but wouldn't a being that was only consciousness and not biology understand evolution beyond biology? wouldn't she see star formation, planet formation, etc. as all part of something we call "evolution"? wouldn't the reverse engineering of all that lead back to the big bang?

I never know if you are serious or just trying to start an E-fight... but I'll play along.

i respect all religions and i've never intentionally started an e-fight that i can recall.

i like your answer.

If God created all then who created God?
I've explained this to my kids like this: Our minds aren't capable of understanding everything.... as much as we want to believe that we can figure out and decipher anything on our own.... it's just not possible for us to understand somethings. Much like if you took a DVD and put it into the VCR player.... the VCR players can't understand what that DVD is...even though the DVD information is very real.

this is kind of like being able to perceive only 1 dimension and using tools and other models to represent the others which we know are there.

Back on track.... to take it to the simplest element... I do not think or believe that the entire solar system and beyond could have happened totally by chance. I do not believe that man could have evolved from a single cell organism totally by chance. I do believe that God or possibly Gods had a hand in creating the beginning of all that we know.

does evolution say that all creation is by chance? i don't know. if it does we might have to work to agree on a definition of "chance."

when i look at a spider i don't see a creature that makes a web just because she can. i see biological purpose.

To answer the biblical counter question of "It says in the Bible that God created MAN in his image"

if god and evolution are more or less the same thing then wouldn't humans (and all creatures) be in the image of god?

i think we're agreeing on this point.

Speaking of pot talk.... it's extremely possible and highly likely that everything we know... our planet and solar system is a tiny speck living inside a much greater being.

from everything i've been reading lately it does seem like there's a very high chance that our universe exists within something much larger. awesome!

[HollywoodAFD]

your double standard is showing. if you aren't capable of understanding everything about god why do you think you are capable of understanding everything about nature?

No double standard at all.... I never said I was capable of understanding everything about nature. Please point to where I confused you on that issue.

I accept that my beliefs may not be scientifically provable.

[crowTrobot]

No double standard at all.... I never said I was capable of understanding everything about nature.

then what is your assertion that the universe isn't capable of existing without a creator based on? wishful thinking?

[Spademan]

If God created all then who created God?
I've explained this to my kids like this: Our minds aren't capable of understanding everything.... as much as we want to believe that we can figure out and decipher anything on our own.... it's just not possible for us to understand somethings. Much like if you took a DVD and put it into the VCR player.... the VCR players can't understand what that DVD is...even though the DVD information is very real.

In other words: "Hey kids, occasionally someone or something will come along that seems to challenge your beliefs in a really, really bad way. Like, it will seem like your beliefs just don't make sense when you apply strict reason and logic to them. Well, kids, at times like those you just shrug your shoulders and realize Gawd is a fucking mystery. I mean, you might start thinking that you should re-examine your beliefs, but don't. Don't actually abandon or tweak your belief just because it seems absurd. Just use your FAITH to battle that pesky logic. Something you can't explain? GOD DID IT AND IT IS A MYSTERY! Something not make sense about your belief system? GOD DID IT AND WE CAN NEVER UNDERSTAND IT! See? It's fucking easy."

It's so sad kids are brainwashed in little ways like this all through their life.

Makes them end up retarded, like most of you non-critical fucks.

Speaking of pot talk.... it's extremely possible and highly likely that everything we know... our planet and solar system is a tiny speck living inside a much greater being.

"Extremely possible"? What the fuck does that even mean? Possible.. in the EXTREEEEEME!

"Highly likely" that everything we know is a speck "living inside a much greater being"? Really? It's "highly likely"? Have you been doing some fucking ground breaking astronomy and physics work that we don't know about? Do you even know what "highly likely" means? What the fuck is your evidence for this "highly likely" state of affairs? Or are you just talking out of your ass.

Yes, it's extremely possible that you are highly likely talking out of your ass.

Most people don't examine their "beliefs" at all, and if they do they either don't have the proper tools to examine them, or are lazy about it.

Your conceptions are ate the fuck up, and it doesn't matter if you "believe" in tolerance, or whether you think your Santa Claus is in your heart, or whether you feel bad for those sad heathens that can't see your fucking fairy tale glory... your shit -does-not-make-sense.

Shit.

[crowTrobot]

evolution: creator of the universe.

evolution is strictly a theory of how living organisms speciate. it says nothing at all about the origins of the universe.

when i look at a spider i don't see a creature that makes a web just because she can. i see biological purpose.

the only "biological purpose" to evolution is adaptation for survival in a particular environment, which is a mechanistic intelligence-free process.
in other words not purpose at all in the sense you're apparently searching for.

[HollywoodAFD]

then what is your assertion that the universe isn't capable of existing without a creator based on? wishful thinking?

Incorrect again my friend.

I never made any assertion at all... refer to the word "belief' again.

If my beliefs are different than yours, please don't feel either threatened or the need to convince me that I'm wrong.

It is my belief that some greater being started everything. It is my belief that a greater being is responsible for all that is.


See... I'm OK with the idea that I don't know everything and can't explain or prove everything.

[HollywoodAFD]

In other words: "Hey kids, occasionally someone or something will come along that seems to challenge your beliefs in a really, really bad way. Like, it will seem like your beliefs just don't make sense when you apply strict reason and logic to them. Well, kids, at times like those you just shrug your shoulders and realize Gawd is a fucking mystery. I mean, you might start thinking that you should re-examine your beliefs, but don't. Don't actually abandon or tweak your belief just because it seems absurd. Just use your FAITH to battle that pesky logic. Something you can't explain? GOD DID IT AND IT IS A MYSTERY! Something not make sense about your belief system? GOD DID IT AND WE CAN NEVER UNDERSTAND IT! See? It's fucking easy."

It's so sad kids are brainwashed in little ways like this all through their life.

Makes them end up retarded, like most of you non-critical fucks.



"Extremely possible"? What the fuck does that even mean? Possible.. in the EXTREEEEEME!

"Highly likely" that everything we know is a speck "living inside a much greater being"? Really? It's "highly likely"? Have you been doing some fucking ground breaking astronomy and physics work that we don't know about? Do you even know what "highly likely" means? What the fuck is your evidence for this "highly likely" state of affairs? Or are you just talking out of your ass.

Yes, it's extremely possible that you are highly likely talking out of your ass.

Most people don't examine their "beliefs" at all, and if they do they either don't have the proper tools to examine them, or are lazy about it.

Your conceptions are ate the fuck up, and it doesn't matter if you "believe" in tolerance, or whether you think your Santa Claus is in your heart, or whether you feel bad for those sad heathens that can't see your fucking fairy tale glory... your shit -does-not-make-sense.

Shit.

If you are unable to carry on an adult conversation... why do you even come in here?
I'm talking "out of my ass" because I'm participating in a religious discussion and have different beliefs than you?

Wow.

Feel threatened often?

It's OK ..

[HollywoodAFD]

the only "biological purpose" to evolution is adaptation for survival in a particular environment, which is a mechanistic intelligence-free process.
in other words not purpose at all in the sense you're apparently searching for.

this sort of answers the OP question about God and evolution... I agree that species do adapt as I do believe man adapted.

Some Christians have trouble relating modern man to Neandethal because of the time line and going back to the whole "in His own image' thing.... I don't.

Depending on ones definition of evolution I do believe God and evolution can co-exist.

One main difference between me and Crow is that I do believe a higher being started the process. To what extent...who knows.
Who cares for that matter.

[crowTrobot]

Incorrect again my friend.

I never made any assertion at all... refer to the word "belief' again.

when a rational (sane) person says they believe something to be true they ARE making an assertion. otherwise
you're saying your "belief" is no different than a child's belief in santa claus.

[HollywoodAFD]

when a rational (sane) person says they believe something to be true they ARE making an assertion. otherwise
you're saying your "belief" is no different than a child's belief in santa claus.

touche' Then my assertion is that a higher being...I shall refer to as God... began all that is.

I understand that my assertion does not make it true any more than anothers assertion makes it false.

[Spademan]

If you are unable to carry on an adult conversation... why do you even come in here?
I'm talking "out of my ass" because I'm participating in a religious discussion and have different beliefs than you?

Wow.

Feel threatened often?

It's OK ..

Threatened. Heh. That's cute.

I deal with religious freaks far more "threatening" than you for a living. Literally. So please.

If you want to carry on an adult conversation, then learn the rules of logic, like an educated adult should.

If you make unsupported, logically inconsistent claims like a child, then you will be spoken to like a child.

Why in the world would someone put in the effort (eyes crow) necessary to speak to you in a rational way when you have cloistered yourself in this veil of ignorance? The main brunt of your argument, the main pillar of your position is admittedly that ignorance is ok with you. "I don't know and can never know, therefore I believe in [arbitrary belief system]."

By virtue of this "faith" reasonable discourse has precisely zero effect on you. If whatever belief system you've latched yourself on to said the sky was green, I could literally take you outside and show you the fucking sky and your response would be, "Well, it's probably an illusion, because The Honorable Right Glorious Lord Allah Jehovah Thor clearly states the sky is green. I don't know why it appears to be blue when I fucking look at it with my eyeballs, it's a god-damned mystery."

So, let's clear this up, my response isn't for you directly, I don't have time to clear away your delusions and undo years of your self-stupidity here on the board. My responses to you are so that people on the fence can clearly see how pathetic your arguments and beliefs are, and people who are already clear on that fact can get a chuckle while they nod their head.