14 replies to this topic

[siquinte]

11nlhe deep stacks, 3 tabling so no reads

PokerStars Game #22470193528: Tournament #122257087, $10+$1 Hold'em No Limit - Level III (25/50) - 2008/11/29 13:22:29 ET
Table '122257087 42' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: poopiesmamma (6670 in chips)
Seat 2: kallaves (4445 in chips)
Seat 3: et5005 (7635 in chips)
Seat 4: kranthy (7735 in chips)
Seat 5: dennis170781 (8015 in chips)
Seat 6: farmer2005 (3860 in chips)
Seat 7: masterduif (2720 in chips)
Seat 8: AntoineHunt (6210 in chips)
Seat 9: siquinte (5070 in chips)
kallaves: posts small blind 25
et5005: posts big blind 50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to siquinte [Qs Qc]
kranthy: folds
dennis170781: folds
farmer2005: calls 50
masterduif: raises 150 to 200
AntoineHunt: folds
siquinte: raises 400 to 600
poopiesmamma: calls 600
kallaves: folds
et5005: folds
farmer2005: raises 3260 to 3860 and is all-in
masterduif: calls 2520 and is all-in

hero?? note that i have 100bb when the hand starts, if this was a regular tournament i think it a call, but here i don't know

[XXEddie]

Here is what helps me fold in a spot like this.....

11nlhe deep stacks, 3 tabling so no reads

PokerStars Game #22470193528: Tournament #122257087, $10+$1 Hold'em No Limit - Level III (25/50) - 2008/11/29 13:22:29 ET
Table '122257087 42' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: poopiesmamma (6670 in chips)
Seat 2: kallaves (4445 in chips)
Seat 3: et5005 (7635 in chips)
Seat 4: kranthy (7735 in chips)
Seat 5: dennis170781 (8015 in chips)
Seat 6: farmer2005 (3860 in chips)
Seat 7: masterduif (2720 in chips)
Seat 8: AntoineHunt (6210 in chips)
Seat 9: siquinte (5070 in chips)
kallaves: posts small blind 25
et5005: posts big blind 50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to siquinte [Qs Qc]
kranthy: folds
dennis170781: folds
farmer2005: calls 50
masterduif: raises 150 to 200
AntoineHunt: folds
siquinte: raises 400 to 600
poopiesmamma: calls 600
kallaves: folds
et5005: folds
farmer2005: raises 3260 to 3860 and is all-in
masterduif: calls 2520 and is all-in

hero?? note that i have 100bb when the hand starts, if this was a regular tournament i think it a call, but here i don't know

You only have 600 of your 5000 invested, slighty more than 10% your stack. Folding would still leave you with 90BBs. So I really think you should fold this. Look at who is allin, as well. You have a guy limping for 50, then shoving 3860. Then you have another opponent who doesn't really seem to worried about getting limp/raised. The more I think about it, the more I want to call...but it is a deepstack. Like you said, in a normal structure, I snapcall/fistpump this, but in a deepstack, I fold because there are much better spots and you have a lot of time to find those spots.

[litlebullet]

I grudgingly fold here and also I'm not sure why you only raised to 600 you should raise to 800 imo ya pretty much priced in the first raiser to call you w/ anything he opens with.

[staggo]

utg has aces a large percentage of the time I would think. Fold.

[Mr. Sparco]

I grudgingly fold here and also I'm not sure why you only raised to 600 you should raise to 800 imo ya pretty much priced in the first raiser to call you w/ anything he opens with.

I agree with the fold, but I'm not sure there's anything wrong with the raise - I play it the same. I wouldn't mind a fold by the original raiser, but I wouldn't mind making him pay to see a flop either. I think raising so much that he will fold anything but AA/KK/AK takes a lot of value away from QQ. (Or to put it in Sklansky language: raising to 800 forces him to make a correct play; raising to 600 allows him to make a mistake.)

[litlebullet]

I agree with the fold, but I'm not sure there's anything wrong with the raise - I play it the same. I wouldn't mind a fold by the original raiser, but I wouldn't mind making him pay to see a flop either. I think raising so much that he will fold anything but AA/KK/AK takes a lot of value away from QQ. (Or to put it in Sklansky language: raising to 800 forces him to make a correct play; raising to 600 allows him to make a mistake.)

well I think raising to 600 allows him to set mine you with lesser pairs and naked aces only thing that he can't profitably call getting 400:1000 is like middle suited connectors plus getting the pot up to 1600 on the flop instead of 1200 I think its a big difference... If he gets out of line on the flop we'll punish him huge and if an ace flops we've defined his hand more and we can play the flop perfectly/ straighforward

[Znakeyez]

results? curious

[siquinte]

Well it took me a while but i folded, i had the feeling that the guy who limped in had like a middle pair, i see that a lot people limping in with 77, they see a lot of chips going into the pot and decide they have to go all in. I was worried about the raiser he made it 4x and then instantly moved all in so i had to put him on kings or aces. There was a chance the first guy had AA as well, but i didn't think so, if the raiser had folded i would have probably called.

I was soo pissed when the first guy showed 88 and the raiser had A4!

Then i saw no more good hands or nice flops for a long time and i couldn't get that QQ out of my mind and how the hell he pushed with A4.

But i had to fold anyway

[TrueAce13]

Yeah, not being result based, but I think this is a snap call. I never fold AA, KK, QQ, or AK PF in a donkament tourny b/c you see this play with A4, 77, TT all the time.

[shpaget]

Yeah, not being result based, but I think this is a snap call. I never fold AA, KK, QQ, or AK PF in a donkament tourny b/c you see this play with A4, 77, TT all the time.

Very true...hands like 99 stick out for me in plays like this.


Also, AK - I see AK play like this a ton of the time in these types of tourneys.

[Mercury69]

I call

[Gallo]

Well it took me a while but i folded, i had the feeling that the guy who limped in had like a middle pair, i see that a lot people limping in with 77, they see a lot of chips going into the pot and decide they have to go all in. I was worried about the raiser he made it 4x and then instantly moved all in so i had to put him on kings or aces. There was a chance the first guy had AA as well, but i didn't think so, if the raiser had folded i would have probably called.

I was soo pissed when the first guy showed 88 and the raiser had A4!

Then i saw no more good hands or nice flops for a long time and i couldn't get that QQ out of my mind and how the hell he pushed with A4.

But i had to fold anyway

Ok, I've already seen the results, but I still don't think I can fold unless I had a real good read.

But it's shoves like those that have tilted me soooo much this past month. I've been trying to get past it, but sometimes it's just ridiculous what people are 3-betting/shoving with nowadays. PF play has definitely become alot more aggressive and stupid recently. I've seen people shove/call off big stacks AIPF with 22, 44, 55. And it really irks me when they hold or get a set.

[SlackerInc]

I can echo Gallo in terms of seeing some stupid PF shoves lately. But I'd still fold the QQ in this situation. A lot of the time you're going to see AK, which you're only flipping against; why take a coinflip this early in a deepstack tourney? And of course you're crushed by AA and KK. KK and of course AA I call with here; everything else I fold when I'm this deep (unless I'm the one with the opportunity to shove and get some fold equity (and there's enough in the pot already to make a shove worthwhile), in which case I might shove AKs as well as QQ.

[litlebullet]

I still say I'm prob folding to 2 shoves and a cold call with QQ as Slack said I think we're deep enough that we can find a better spot. (that's so cliche yuck) but 1 shove and I can't get rid of it. Pretty much my QQ shrivels to JJ in this spot and I can fold JJ easy to this kind of pressure too.

[MovingIn]

I was soo pissed when the first guy showed 88 and the raiser had A4!

Then i saw no more good hands or nice flops for a long time and i couldn't get that QQ out of my mind and how the hell he pushed with A4.

One thing you must do after a spot like this is to let it go and get back to playing your game. Yes, make a note that those two donkeys flatted your 3bet and shoved into you with those crappy hands, but otherwise you have to forget about it. Players make asinine donkey plays on me all the time, but I quickly ditch any hard feelings and stick to playing my game because if I tilt, the end result is rarely going to be good. In fact, part of the motivation to play like this is to tilt solid players and get them of their game, because many donkeys know they can't outplay solid players unless they can tilt them.