248 replies to this topic

[BaseJester]

TraptSteve, on Tuesday, November 25th, 2008, 11:33 PM, said:

You didn't even include a SW for your first statement.

It wasn't intended as sarcasm. If you're playing with the intention and expectation of winning, you are much more serious than the average Vegas 1/2 player.

Quote

I'm comfortable buying in for the standard 100BB, but in an effort to conserve a small "bankroll", I would buy in for 50BB. From reading the responses here I've decided to work a couple more months here to pad my starting BR. Still, we're talking about 1-2 frickin' NLHE. I'm not sure how tough 1-2NLHE has gotten online, but it is still pretty soft live.

Yeah, if you think you can make more playing deep (and you probably can), then building a roll that makes you comfortable playing deep is a good idea. I'm not sure that buying short really takes the swings out. You end up coin flipping a lot if you're doing it right.

[cubsfan44]

Youre moving to vegas to shortstack 1/2 NL???? The low limit games generally get tougher during the WSOP.Goodluck lol.

[antistuff]

chgocubs99, on Tuesday, November 25th, 2008, 10:33 PM, said:

Sorry, but it is a fact that your optimal winrate is higher buying in full than it is on a short stack, assuming you are moderately competent at poker. If you aren't moderately competant, your winrate will be negative either way.

what is an optimal winrate?

[Acid_Knight]

I didn't read that many of the replies.1. Those are 1/2 buyins2. Buying in for 50BBs at a time and calling $2000 "20 buyins" as opposed to buying in full and having 10 buyins is not a way to extend your BR. Your BR should really be an amount in relation to 100BB stacks and that's usually 25 buyins for online full ring games. Playing live, you can get away with less, but I'd definitely want more than 10.3. Buying in full allows you to maximize value on your hands. If you're not comfortable for any reason playing with a 100BB stack, you probably should not be trying to play poker for a living or whatever we're calling this.4. Make sure your 3 months of living expenses take into account food and entertainment and other incidental things which aren't included in your rent and utility bills. You should really have 5 or 6 months saved up fwiw.5. The 1/2 games are easy. Just play somewhere that gives you points or $$ back or whatever for the hours you log, like Caesar's or The Venetian.6. Good luck.

[chgocubs99]

antistuff, on Tuesday, November 25th, 2008, 11:00 PM, said:

what is an optimal winrate?

Though you don't care about the answer to the question and are instead saying this to challenge my "authority" on the subject, I'll do my best to answer anyway.Show me one professional poker player who buys in shortstacked. Does that "prove" anything? When 400 NBA players shoot a jump shot in basically the same manner...well I'm pretty sure they know what they're doing.Optimal online winrate would be probably 8-10ptbb/100 hands played, one-tabling 1/2NL (not that you really care about the numbers). I could do the math and translate that to $$$/hr live, but I won't waste either of our time since neither of us care. I've never seen a graph of someone shortstacking for more than 3ptbb/100. I don't have links, so don't ask. It's simply the product of soaking up information over the course of several years on poker forums, some of which, believe it or not, I actually learn from. If people weren't so stubborn, maybe they would too, instead of passing off some pipe dream fallacy as fact when, in reality, they really have no clue what they are talking about.Pick up on which people know what they are talking about when it comes to serious poker material, and which ones don't. With something as simple and obvious as whether shortstacking is an effective way for an above-average player to maximize winrate, you won't have to look very far.

[TraptSteve]

Acid_Knight, on Tuesday, November 25th, 2008, 9:00 PM, said:

I didn't read that many of the replies.1. Those are 1/2 buyins2. Buying in for 50BBs at a time and calling $2000 "20 buyins" as opposed to buying in full and having 10 buyins is not a way to extend your BR. Your BR should really be an amount in relation to 100BB stacks and that's usually 25 buyins for online full ring games. Playing live, you can get away with less, but I'd definitely want more than 10.3. Buying in full allows you to maximize value on your hands. If you're not comfortable for any reason playing with a 100BB stack, you probably should not be trying to play poker for a living or whatever we're calling this.4. Make sure your 3 months of living expenses take into account food and entertainment and other incidental things which aren't included in your rent and utility bills. You should really have 5 or 6 months saved up fwiw.5. The 1/2 games are easy. Just play somewhere that gives you points or $$ back or whatever for the hours you log, like Caesar's or The Venetian.6. Good luck.

Meh.I'm going to put some more money away until March. Are there any retail/sales jobs out there? I'm not ashamed to work for 8 dollaz an hour.Clearly the amount of money I was considering moving down here with will not be enough(4.5k). Even with some of the places I've been looking at with rent for 500 a month, there is still food (200/ month as a conservative est.), and cell phone bill.So about 800 a month. 3k should be enough to cover all expenses for 3 months.3-4k for my 1-2nl br.This way I should have money to play when the WSOP comes back around.Cubsfan44, I found the 1-2 NL to be very easy for the brief time I played; 2-5 was noticably tougher

[chgocubs99]

TraptSteve, on Tuesday, November 25th, 2008, 11:31 PM, said:

Meh.I'm going to put some more money away until March. Are there any retail/sales jobs out there? I'm not ashamed to work for 8 dollaz an hour.Clearly the amount of money I was considering moving down here with will not be enough(4.5k). Even with some of the places I've been looking at with rent for 500 a month, there is still food (200/ month as a conservative est.), and cell phone bill.So about 800 a month. 3k should be enough to cover all expenses for 3 months.3-4k for my 1-2nl br.This way I should have money to play when the WSOP comes back around.Cubsfan44, I found the 1-2 NL to be very easy for the brief time I played; the 2-5 there was a noticable drop in "touristy"play and tougher overall.

There are three key points that I am going to try to drive home to you...okay 4.1) You are responding to a professional poker player that has years of experience, also happens to live in Vegas and play live, and is one of the more advanced poker thinkers on this site, and is giving you free, accurate, and worthwhile information THAT YOU ASKED FOR with "Meh". Just so you're aware.2) Quit bringing up the few hundred or so hands you played in the middle of summer last year. They're irrelevant.3) Quit bringing up the WSOP for Christ's sake. It doesn't matter, at all.4) I don't care what you do so ignore 1-3 if you want.

[MovingIn]

TraptSteve, on Tuesday, November 25th, 2008, 9:31 PM, said:

Meh.I'm going to put some more money away until March. Are there any retail/sales jobs out there? I'm not ashamed to work for 8 dollaz an hour.

MovingIn, on Tuesday, November 25th, 2008, 6:23 PM, said:

Vegas is in poor economic shape right now, and not many people out there are hiring. Plus, the cost of living is still bloated from the overgrowth of previous years. This is a bad time to move out there.

You also assume, in allocating 500 a month for rent, that you're going to sublet or co-rent in a reliable living situation. And knowing the general population of Las Vegas (having lived there a while), that is a giant leap of faith. What's Plan B the first time your roommates flake on rent/bills or ditch you? How much time in resolving this will this take away from your playing time?There is a LOT more to planning something like this than just figuring out how much money you may need and then finding someone to room with.

[TraptSteve]

chgocubs99, on Tuesday, November 25th, 2008, 9:38 PM, said:

There are three key points that I am going to try to drive home to you...okay 4.1) You are responding to a professional poker player that has years of experience, also happens to live in Vegas and play live, and is one of the more advanced poker thinkers on this site, and is giving you free, accurate, and worthwhile information THAT YOU ASKED FOR with "Meh". Just so you're aware.2) Quit bringing up the few hundred or so hands you played in the middle of summer last year. They're irrelevant.3) Quit bringing up the WSOP for Christ's sake. It doesn't matter, at all.4) I don't care what you do so ignore 1-3 if you want.

I know exactly who Acid is and, TBH, was hoping he would get around to this thread. I may not post here regularly, but I'm not new to the forum either. His input confirmed some of concerns.Which is why I typed "meh"... then said the amount of money I was initially going to move with was too small. I was agreeing with his critique. Not shrugging off his advice.Maybe you should use context clues next time. Cub fans annoy me Oh and FWIW... I know an easy game when I see one, and the 1-2 games I played in were JUICY!

[TraptSteve]

MovingIn, on Tuesday, November 25th, 2008, 9:42 PM, said:

You also assume, in allocating 500 a month for rent, that you're going to sublet or co-rent in a reliable living situation. And knowing the general population of Las Vegas (having lived there a while), that is a giant leap of faith. What's Plan B the first time your roommates flake on rent/bills or ditch you? How much time in resolving this will this take away from your playing time?There is a LOT more to planning something like this than just figuring out how much money you may need and then finding someone to room with.

Well, that is a risk everyone will have to accept. I plan on staying at a hotel for a few days before I move in to meet my room mate.If they flake, there are weeklong rates for about 200 a week at downtown casinos. Worst case senario I would take refuge there. My funds will be located either my bank account or at the casino(s) I play, so atleast that will be secured.

[El Guapo]

This thread, like so many before it, is not asking for advice. It's a statement of what someone is going to do, then them justifying why.

[Vtlaxer09]

save up another grand then you're rolled for roulette. GL.

[TraptSteve]

El Guapo, on Tuesday, November 25th, 2008, 10:07 PM, said:

This thread, like so many before it, is not asking for advice. It's a statement of what someone is going to do, then them justifying why.

Actually, I ignored all the trolling, sarcastic posts (ie ones like yours), and objectively listened to the ones that offered advice.I'm reconsidering moving there now and waiting a few months to save up more money.But thanks for your useless line of text

[empythree]

chgocubs99, on Tuesday, November 25th, 2008, 11:23 PM, said:

Show me one professional poker player who buys in shortstacked.

I think I read in Barry Greenstein's book that he does buy in at the minimum..... He wouldn't give an explanation why though.

[BaseJester]

empythree, on Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 6:09 AM, said:

I think I read in Barry Greenstein's book that he does buy in at the minimum..... He wouldn't give an explanation why though.

Greenstein's Explanation

[dscoot]

Def dont buyin for 100 at the 1-2 games. That makes u a super grinder, and u will almost never score big wins playing like this.U def want 100 minimum total to bet with at any given point for your winning hands. So if you got the proper roll, never sit on 70 or 35, unless you are steaming and know yourself well enuff that you shouldnt add more chips. But if u can handle playing with an early loss, U should always top up to at min 100 at the start of each hand.If you dont wanna buy in for 200 per time, buy in for 150, then when u dip to 100-ish add 1 or 2 green chips to your stack ($25)Also dont be ashamed to go to the cheap ass shitty part of the town casinos, cuz the players will be softer there. I also wouldnt recommend playing at the same place all month to get points or qualify for a freeroll, as you will encounter more rounders there who are trying to do the same thing. Also 7am-2pm are usually shitty times and u will only encounter tight grinders then. STay away from all casino gambling, you have your edge at poker, no need to do other shit.

[dscoot]

TraptSteve, on Tuesday, November 25th, 2008, 10:56 PM, said:

I'm reconsidering moving there now and waiting a few months to save up more money.

why? people are always gonna give you shit on the forums, bc the majority of poker players are assholes who think they can do it but others cant. i took 800 roll to vegas and played 1-2 with it for 6months without replenishing it. using my winnings to pay my student loans and cc debt from the past five years were the only reason i ever ran out of that original roll. most i ever lost in a week was 250. U should be fine, assuming you are a good player and get a side job. Do u have any other billz beside rent and expenses in vegas? If not, go for it. A sick good player at 1-2 can make 25-35$ pr hr, an above average can do 15$, even and average non novice should be able to pull 10/hr at the low limits. ONly tip 1 per hand and dont go crazy on the booze hookers pit strip clubs

[mtdesmoines]

TraptSteve, on Tuesday, November 25th, 2008, 1:40 PM, said:

1. Is this plausible? I'm 23 years old; worst case senario I move back to Chicago and work at the family business. It is a small starting BR, but then again it won't be my main source of income.

I think if you keep this in perspective as an adventure and don't tilt at all ever, you'll have fun doing it. I don't know if you will realize the poker dream. Run good. You have no other options.

dead money, on Tuesday, November 25th, 2008, 4:34 PM, said:

I did this a few years back moving down to AC. I had $12k saved up and moved in with 3 friends. I was broke by the end of the year and had to move back home. But you know what, I would do it all over again if I had the chance. It was loads of fun. The funny thing was I actually won money for the year(a small five figure profit), but it was the spending that I couldnt control. I blew money like it would catch fire if I didnt spend it. I have about 400 dvds to prove it. It sounds easy, but the lifestyle really gets to you. I got in with a group of regulars who showed me the ropes and I loved it. I learned a lot. But it got boring. It became a job just like anything else. There were months that came and went and I didnt see daylight. Literally. I would wake up at about 5pm(winters in Jersey, the sun fades by then), go get some breakfast/dinner(usually at the best place ever created- WAWA), then I would head down and play until about 5am. I did this for about 2 months straight. Then I started to realize I was overspending. I started to play larger to get it back and that would make me play tighter. Not a good combo. I usually eeked out a small profit or broke even and by the end of the year I had spent more then I made and lost it all. I say go for it. Its an awesome experience win or lose. And it made me a much better player because of it. Have fun, good luck, and make sure to post every now and then to let us know how you are doing.

Experience is a good teacher.

BaseJester, on Tuesday, November 25th, 2008, 7:51 PM, said:

I think you're probably better off playing as deep as possible into Vegas 1/2 games since you're a serious player.

I thought this too.

MovingIn, on Tuesday, November 25th, 2008, 9:42 PM, said:

You also assume, in allocating 500 a month for rent, that you're going to sublet or co-rent in a reliable living situation. And knowing the general population of Las Vegas (having lived there a while), that is a giant leap of faith. What's Plan B the first time your roommates flake on rent/bills or ditch you? How much time in resolving this will this take away from your playing time? There is a LOT more to planning something like this than just figuring out how much money you may need and then finding someone to room with.

Maybe the OP will be the flake, thus saving $$ on rent.

El Guapo, on Tuesday, November 25th, 2008, 10:07 PM, said:

This thread, like so many before it, is not asking for advice. It's a statement of what someone is going to do, then them justifying why.

QFT

dscoot, on Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 4:03 AM, said:

Also dont be ashamed to go to the cheap ass shitty part of the town casinos, cuz the players will be softer there. I also wouldnt recommend playing at the same place all month to get points or qualify for a freeroll, as you will encounter more rounders there who are trying to do the same thing. Also 7am-2pm are usually shitty times and u will only encounter tight grinders then. STay away from all casino gambling, you have your edge at poker, no need to do other shit.

Not necessarily. And yeah, stay out of the pit.

dscoot, on Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 4:17 AM, said:

A sick good player at 1-2 can make 25-35$ pr hr, an above average can do 15$, even and average non novice should be able to pull 10/hr at the low limits. ONly tip 1 per hand and dont go crazy on the booze hookers pit strip clubs

LOLepic thread in progress btw

[OhKeePa]

ok...with the current economic situation in the country...and your lack of real buy ins for a 1-2 game...why not just stay in chicago and play online?you can increase your bankroll tenfold... set yourself up nice... new monitor, computer, chair, desk etc...and you also dont have the pressure of finding a job in a new state, away from your family and all that nonsense

[chgocubs99]

El Guapo, on Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 12:07 AM, said:

This thread, like so many before it, is not asking for advice. It's a statement of what someone is going to do, then them justifying why.

Bingo...I wish I never gave any serious replies in this thread...my mistake.

dscoot, on Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 6:17 AM, said:

why? people are always gonna give you shit on the forums, bc the majority of poker players are assholes who think they can do it but others cant. i took 800 roll to vegas and played 1-2 with it for 6months without replenishing it. using my winnings to pay my student loans and cc debt from the past five years were the only reason i ever ran out of that original roll. most i ever lost in a week was 250. U should be fine, assuming you are a good player and get a side job. Do u have any other billz beside rent and expenses in vegas? If not, go for it. A sick good player at 1-2 can make 25-35$ pr hr, an above average can do 15$, even and average non novice should be able to pull 10/hr at the low limits. ONly tip 1 per hand and dont go crazy on the booze hookers pit strip clubs

HAHAHAHAHA