248 replies to this topic

[antistuff]

El Guapo, on Tuesday, November 25th, 2008, 6:41 PM, said:

Point being, that if he plays 2 pots and gets away from 2 hands, he has to rebuy.He needs to buy in for the full 200-300 depending on card room rules.

i don't know why this is such a pet peeve of mine. in the game you described i would actually prefer to play on a short stack. you do not need to buy in full to win. and you won't necessarily win more by buying in full.

[antistuff]

TraptSteve, on Tuesday, November 25th, 2008, 6:51 PM, said:

Yes. My brother, first cousin and I will all have a percentage when our respective fathers retire. My family supports my decision and have told me I'll have a spot in the business.With that in mind...Lets assume I'm going out there with less than the figures you gave, but with the expectation to find a steady job for reliable income. I'll have 3 months rent/expenses set aside to allow me ample time to find a job. Realistically, even if I run like Mike Matusow and blow my BR in 2 weeks, I'll still be able to replenish it. And if I make it past the WSOP and I'm doing nothing but treading water, I can move back home.With all this in mind, is it not worth it to try? I'd rather take the opportunity while its available; I will not be able to try this when I'm working full-time at the business.

assuming you have really thought this thing out, you aren't giving up a spot to own part of a business (which is an invaluable opportunity), and you are a winning player, go for it.just really give thought to the rest of your life. i think the willingness to take a big risk for a big reward is an admirable trait in a person, but have a back up plan.

[El Guapo]

antistuff, on Tuesday, November 25th, 2008, 4:16 PM, said:

i don't know why this is such a pet peeve of mine. in the game you described i would actually prefer to play on a short stack. you do not need to buy in full to win. and you won't necessarily win more by buying in full.

Really? You would prefer to play with 40-50 BB when an opening bet can be 5-8 BB? A Three bet is an all in for you. You are basically flipping at that point.I am not saying you should never buy short, but long term I don't think this makes any sense. Plus he is considering a $100 a buy in, when it's not. Even if you buy short stacked looking to double, you still have to view $200 as a buy via BR management, and he is considering playing "pro" on 10 buy ins.

[Jaimca]

Flushgarden, on Tuesday, November 25th, 2008, 3:29 PM, said:

Do you have the right pair of sunglasses?

I actually bursed out laughing when I read this.Be prepared to go broke. Wasn't Daniel broke for a long time after he moved to Vegas?

[dead money]

TraptSteve, on Tuesday, November 25th, 2008, 4:51 PM, said:

Yes. My brother, first cousin and I will all have a percentage when our respective fathers retire. My family supports my decision and have told me I'll have a spot in the business.With that in mind...Lets assume I'm going out there with less than the figures you gave, but with the expectation to find a steady job for reliable income. I'll have 3 months rent/expenses set aside to allow me ample time to find a job. Realistically, even if I run like Mike Matusow and blow my BR in 2 weeks, I'll still be able to replenish it. And if I make it past the WSOP and I'm doing nothing but treading water, I can move back home.With all this in mind, is it not worth it to try? I'd rather take the opportunity while its available; I will not be able to try this when I'm working full-time at the business.

I did this a few years back moving down to AC. I had $12k saved up and moved in with 3 friends. I was broke by the end of the year and had to move back home. But you know what, I would do it all over again if I had the chance. It was loads of fun. The funny thing was I actually won money for the year(a small five figure profit), but it was the spending that I couldnt control. I blew money like it would catch fire if I didnt spend it. I have about 400 dvds to prove it. It sounds easy, but the lifestyle really gets to you. I got in with a group of regulars who showed me the ropes and I loved it. I learned a lot. But it got boring. It became a job just like anything else. There were months that came and went and I didnt see daylight. Literally. I would wake up at about 5pm(winters in Jersey, the sun fades by then), go get some breakfast/dinner(usually at the best place ever created- WAWA), then I would head down and play until about 5am. I did this for about 2 months straight. Then I started to realize I was overspending. I started to play larger to get it back and that would make me play tighter. Not a good combo. I usually eeked out a small profit or broke even and by the end of the year I had spent more then I made and lost it all. I say go for it. Its an awesome experience win or lose. And it made me a much better player because of it. Have fun, good luck, and make sure to post every now and then to let us know how you are doing.

[whatgreatis]

antistuff, on Tuesday, November 25th, 2008, 5:16 PM, said:

you won't necessarily win more by buying in full.

I disagree with this so much it's not even funny.

[TraptSteve]

El Guapo, on Tuesday, November 25th, 2008, 4:29 PM, said:

Really? You would prefer to play with 40-50 BB when an opening bet can be 5-8 BB? A Three bet is an all in for you. You are basically flipping at that point.I am not saying you should never buy short, but long term I don't think this makes any sense. Plus he is considering a $100 a buy in, when it's not. Even if you buy short stacked looking to double, you still have to view $200 as a buy via BR management, and he is considering playing "pro" on 10 buy ins.

I did not say I'm going pro with 10 buyins. I said I am going to find whatever job I for steady income, then use my small starting bankroll to try to earn income on the side.Should I lose it, it won't be the end of the world for me. I do not intend for poker to be my only source of income. If I need to go to a dealer school and work the stupid BJ tables for rent, I'll do it.Worse case senario I go home; regardless of ego.

[Naked_Cowboy]

you've considered the fact that people are being laid off left and right in your plans to quickly find a stable well paying job in a relatively expensive city to live in that will still afford you the flexibility to play poker, right? also, the psychological effect of playing on such a short roll will have an impact on your game. It sounds like it might be enough now, but have seriously 1 bad session and you'll be thinking "if i call this bet and lose, i'll only have xxx left in my bankroll...".

[TraptSteve]

It is a small portion of money to be playing on. If I don't have a job by the end of the second month (i have enough money for 3 months ), and I'm busted/low on my BR... I'll have keep the last 1k or so and go back home.Even if I ration out my buyins by going in for half... I'm basically at the mercy of the cards. And I've heard from everyone that the job market out there is horrible. I'll need to find a job before I can play. That would be my first priority.I can work though the holidays for some extra "cushion" money... leave in Feb maybe.

[MovingIn]

Vegas is in poor economic shape right now, and not many people out there are hiring. Plus, the cost of living is still bloated from the overgrowth of previous years. This is a bad time to move out there.

[Shark527]

This bankroll of $2000 for 20 $100 buyins playing 1/2. Are you saying your going to play 1/2 NL exclusively? You have any other games to fall back of if you think your NL isn't feeling premium one night?

[antistuff]

whatgreatis, on Tuesday, November 25th, 2008, 7:37 PM, said:

I disagree with this so much it's not even funny.

its not an opinion

[whatgreatis]

antistuff, on Tuesday, November 25th, 2008, 7:28 PM, said:

its not an opinion

lolololololOkay. You buy in for a dollar, I'll buy in for 200 and we'll see how much each of us win.

[Naked_Cowboy]

antistuff, on Tuesday, November 25th, 2008, 9:28 PM, said:

its not an opinion

it's more of a personal preference and table dependant than opinion, but if you know for a fact that you can make better turn decisions than the average player in your game, and the average pot size vs. your stack does not allow you to ever having a meaningful decision on the turn, you are losing value. if you are a bad player taking a shot trying to roll it up, then you limit your risk of ruin by buying in short, but I'd bet a huge sum of money that my win rate would be quite a bit higher buying in for as much as possible rather than 50bb in a small stakes live game.

[chgocubs99]

antistuff, on Tuesday, November 25th, 2008, 8:28 PM, said:

its not an opinion

Sorry, but it is a fact that your optimal winrate is higher buying in full than it is on a short stack, assuming you are moderately competent at poker. If you aren't moderately competant, your winrate will be negative either way.

[chgocubs99]

Naked_Cowboy, on Tuesday, November 25th, 2008, 9:15 PM, said:

it's more of a personal preference and table dependant than opinion, but if you know for a fact that you can make better turn decisions than the average player in your game, and the average pot size vs. your stack does not allow you to ever having a meaningful decision on the turn, you are losing value. if you are a bad player taking a shot trying to roll it up, then you limit your risk of ruin by buying in short, but I'd bet a huge sum of money that my win rate would be quite a bit higher buying in for as much as possible rather than 50bb in a small stakes live game.

Yes. Not debatable.

[quadaces]

Being 23 I would say without a doubt do it. Do it now for a couple of reasons. First off you don't want to be like a lot of people in this forum who have a family and dream that they could do something like this. Do it while you have the opportunity. Do it while you don't have responsibilities. You are still young enough that if you don't succeed then you can do something else, like the family business.

[BaseJester]

I think you're probably better off playing as deep as possible into Vegas 1/2 games since you're a serious player.There is, however, a real game theory advantage to playing short. I can't remember who came up with this, but you can probably find it in rgp if you look.Imagine a game where all the players ante 1 chip. The hero buys-in short for 1 chip. Other players buy-in deep. The hero always play optimally. The villains, however, fold sometimes to the big bets on later streets. They're correct to do so, because they're concerned about the bets that attack their stack. However, they're making a huge mistake as far as the main pot is concerned and that's all we care about.Among evenly matched opponents, the short-stackers win the money.Short-stacking live poker is incredibly dull, though, and I'd prefer to work at McDonald's than short-stack $1/$2 NLHE. The players are doing stupid things on later streets that, in reality, we can exploit anyway.

[MovingIn]

quadaces, on Tuesday, November 25th, 2008, 7:50 PM, said:

Being 23 I would say without a doubt do it. Do it now for a couple of reasons. First off you don't want to be like a lot of people in this forum who have a family and dream that they could do something like this. Do it while you have the opportunity. Do it while you don't have responsibilities. You are still young enough that if you don't succeed then you can do something else, like the family business.

He doesn't have to do it now, and not doing it now doesn't mean he can't do it later. Dude's probably not going to start a family and lock into a mortgage and career if he doesn't go now.He should probably plan more and make sure he has a stronger chance of grounding himself in a stable living and work situation there, because chances are too good this attempt will flame out for reasons that are tangentially related at best to how he plays.

[TraptSteve]

BaseJester, on Tuesday, November 25th, 2008, 7:51 PM, said:

I think you're probably better off playing as deep as possible into Vegas 1/2 games since you're a serious player.There is, however, a real game theory advantage to playing short. I can't remember who came up with this, but you can probably find it in rgp if you look.Imagine a game where all the players ante 1 chip. The hero buys-in short for 1 chip. Other players buy-in deep. The hero always play optimally. The villains, however, fold sometimes to the big bets on later streets. They're correct to do so, because they're concerned about the bets that attack their stack. However, they're making a huge mistake as far as the main pot is concerned and that's all we care about.Among evenly matched opponents, the short-stackers win the money.Short-stacking live poker is incredibly dull, though, and I'd prefer to work at McDonald's than short-stack $1/$2 NLHE. The players are doing stupid things on later streets that, in reality, we can exploit anyway.

You didn't even include a SW for your first statement. I'm comfortable buying in for the standard 100BB, but in an effort to conserve a small "bankroll", I would buy in for 50BB. From reading the responses here I've decided to work a couple more months here to pad my starting BR. Still, we're talking about 1-2 frickin' NLHE. I'm not sure how tough 1-2NLHE has gotten online, but it is still pretty soft live. Of course, the last time I played it in Vegas was in the middle of the '07 WSOP. Obviously the games were much better then. The question is how much so...One person said they're still pretty good. Can anyone else comment on this?As for the person who asked if I played any other games... no. I guess I could do some small stakes nut-peddling in limit Omaha.