10 replies to this topic

[Vade]

This is something I see a lot at the 25 NL tables, wondering if anyone has any ideas.I'll make my standard raise with AK or AQ or whatever, usually 5 BB if someone has limped in, and there's a call or two.One of the limpers bet a quarter into said pot (3-ways) with a flop of A-K-xI had AQ on this occasion.I made it 2.5 to go, and he folded. (the other guy folded also)What is the point of this minimum bet? I don't get it...The question is: Is this a trap? Or is this just a weak play from a bad player?

[Emptyeye]

DISCLAIMER: I'm not primarily an NL player.I've said it a few times recently here, but when someone mini-bets into me, I will call (NOT fold, NOT raise) just about every single time. My reasoning is simple: People mini-bet for one of two reasons.The first is that they're weak, and hope that their mini-bet will get you to fold. Most fish will employ it this way. They don't want a call here, no way, no how.The second is that they've flopped a monster, and they want to SEEM weak so that you'll raise and they can call and/or come back over the top huge. If you call, that's acceptable to them, but it's not what they REALLY want to happen. So either way, a call pretty much screws up all their plans, which is why I do it. If I have a read one way or the other (Say the person RAISED preflop, I called, the flop came rags, and they mini-bet, I'll push back hard because the ragged flop isn't likely to help them and they'll almost certainly fold), I'll play it differently, but until I know precisely why they mini-bet, I call.

[Vade]

Interesting. As it turns out, this mini-better was loose and basically tossing money away. Hmm...perhaps I should have just called, but I like to try to end the pot quickly with AQ

[Emptyeye]

Understood completely. Like you said, if he was just tossing money away, there's nothing terrible about raising here (Though AKx may put me off a little on the flop; I can potentially see someone calling but not reraising with AK). You just have to be aware that a savvy player knows what the mini-bet typically represents (And will use it to their advantage), and play accordingly if you think they're solid and the mini-bet sticks out like a sore thumb.

[Scott3705]

Emptyeye said:

DISCLAIMER: I'm not primarily an NL player.I've said it a few times recently here, but when someone mini-bets into me, I will call (NOT fold, NOT raise) just about every single time. My reasoning is simple: People mini-bet for one of two reasons.The first is that they're weak, and hope that their mini-bet will get you to fold. Most fish will employ it this way. They don't want a call here, no way, no how.The second is that they've flopped a monster, and they want to SEEM weak so that you'll raise and they can call and/or come back over the top huge. If you call, that's acceptable to them, but it's not what they REALLY want to happen. So either way, a call pretty much screws up all their plans, which is why I do it. If I have a read one way or the other (Say the person RAISED preflop, I called, the flop came rags, and they mini-bet, I'll push back hard because the ragged flop isn't likely to help them and they'll almost certainly fold), I'll play it differently, but until I know precisely why they mini-bet, I call.

I will always raise a weak raise if I would have raised the flop if he had checked. Basically, I treat these small riases as checks. In your AQ example, if the limper checked, I would have bet. If he comes over the top of me, I interpret it as a check raise and play it accordingly. Especially three way, I don't want to be giving a third person a price to draw out on me if the limper is firing with nothing.

[powerpoker]

i to get confused with mini bets...but dont try to out think yourself when you have AQ...i like the raise...if he calls ok slow down hes got a hand...he as well may throw out a small bet to confuse in a sense he is on a bluff draw of sorts...straight or flush depending on the board...i would almost all raise...i also play NL a lot and i prefer to win a lot of small pots with aggression...super system style :wink:

[rwood]

small bets are a great way to gather information on an oponent in NL. also you can employ the weak lead if you are the one throwing in the small bet...also i must add, that sometime you confuse your oponent so much with this small bet that they may react in a way which does not reflect the true strength of their holdings. i like the reraise here, as you should know where you are at from it...playing higher limits using the weak lead is a very very profitable tool, as the players get much more aggressive. at the lower limits the players will pay you off if they have a hand, no matter what, so just get your money in and rake the pot...

[Vade]

Interesting thoughts. I was certainly wary of a trap, until I remember that this player had been spewing chips like crazy. Poor fool probably thought that his Q-7 was good, and was hoping to buy the pot for the price of a 1980s phone call

[pokernoobie]

Many people mini bet with a draw so you will not think of raising like you mentioned earlier "should i just have called?" DO NOT CALL THIS

[checkymcfold]

first, i am primarily a NL player, and am a big fan of using AND receiving the weak lead at various NL blind levels.imho, it REALLY depends on the limits you're playing to get a read on what the hell this means.at low/micro limits, the min bet almost always means a draw or crap hand, in my experience. in your situation, raise the hell out of it.in mid limits, you start to see some min bets begging for a raise. is a set a possibility? are there str8s out there? this is info that could help you, but if it seems unlikely that your weak leader has caught a huge flop, give em a big-ish raise just like in microlimits. if it's a distinct possibility that your opponent caught a huge flop, give him/her a decent 1/2 pot to pot sized raise and use your excellent postflop reading skills to go from there. at higher limits, the weak lead almost always means a strong hand. it won't show up as a min bet here, though--usually something that resembles the size of a preflop raise or even a little less. of course, many good players do the same thing with draws, so at the higher levels it's really hard to read the weak lead with any consistency, and a call is usually the right play if you have position. hope for better reads later.and for what it's worth, the weak lead is my favorite move in all of NLHE, tournaments or cash games. what "weak" means varies from game to game, whether 1/3 pot or min bet, but it's almost always a huge winner when playing postflop monsters out of position, in my experience.

[CobaltBlue]

Vade, from my NL experience, the guy probably had a flush or straight draw. Many players feel that checking to a pre-flop raiser (particularly a good player) will result in a bet that they can't call with their draw. Therefore, they mini bet in hopes that the PF-raiser will just call. Thus, they're paying to draw...but hoping that they're getting a discount. The mini bet can also be used to gather information. It's rarely a semi-bluff (in the sense of hoping to get rid of other players), but occasionally it does take down a pot. I'll employ the tactic occasionally, but min-bets are pretty worthless. 1/3 to 1/5 of the pot usually works decently for these purposes. Plus, it's much more likely to take the pot down and/or get better info.Every now and then, the mini bet signifies a monster. I usually view those scenarios as them being stupid and letting me draw to a better hand.The only time that I employ min-betting in NL is during a tourney. If I have a monster in late position (with no limpers), I'll min-bet to "steal". This typically gets raised by any aggressive player on the blind with an average hand.