11 replies to this topic

[SlackerInc]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $5.00+$0.50 Tournament, 10/20 Blinds (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comMP1 (t1500)MP2 (t1490)CO (t1460)Button (t1470)Hero (SB) (t1480)BB (t1500)UTG (t3100)UTG+1 (t1500)Hero's M: 49.33Preflop: Hero is SB with A, JUTG calls t20, 5 folds, Hero raises to t100, BB calls t80, UTG calls t80Flop: (t300) J, 6, A (3 players)Hero...?I think the standard play, from what I've seen, is to shove here (figuring that against two opponents, at least one of them probably has a diamond--and if one of them already has the flush, at least you've got six outs twice to improve to a full house). I thought it would be interesting though to discuss whether this is too "scaredy cat" a line or what.

[SGFULTON83]

I personally wouldn't insta-shove here. Being OOP is tough here but I think I do a normal c-bet here. Don't be a skeered of the diamonds, yet.

[SlackerInc]

SGFULTON83, on Sunday, November 2nd, 2008, 10:48 PM, said:

I personally wouldn't insta-shove here. Being OOP is tough here but I think I do a normal c-bet here. Don't be a skeered of the diamonds, yet.

So you'd only bet like half the pot?Let's say we took that line. What if one or both flat calls, and the turn brings another diamond? Then you check fold if you don't improve? Or, what if you c-bet, one player calls, then the other shoves?

[ABigMotivation]

Bet pot or around 400 and shove if raised

[pokerinc]

bet 95% of pot calls hove chek fold diamond turn

[SGFULTON83]

SlackerInc, on Sunday, November 2nd, 2008, 11:07 PM, said:

So you'd only bet like half the pot?Let's say we took that line. What if one or both flat calls, and the turn brings another diamond? Then you check fold if you don't improve? Or, what if you c-bet, one player calls, then the other shoves?

I'd c-bet probably 3/4 to pot.If I get 1 or 2 callers and the turn brings another diamond I go check/fold unimproved.This would be the worst case scenario but if this happens I think we have the best hand so I would call the shove and hope for no more diamonds. Even if someone has the flush already we atleast have some outs.

[jmbreslin]

Shoving is bad, you'll only get called by a hand that beats you.

[Mercury69]

Personally, I think a shove is horrible. How about making a solid C-bet of 200 (into a 300 pot) and reassess on the turn, if you get called. If one of the villains shoves over to, then you can decide whether or not to call.

[Cappy37]

jmbreslin, on Monday, November 3rd, 2008, 6:54 AM, said:

Shoving is bad, you'll only get called by a hand that beats you.

So untrue... We get called by single diamonds a lot here, or a worse/better-but-now-worse ace a ton.Will a shove fold out a hand that is beating us? no.Will a shove be called by a range of hands we are currently beating? YesCan i improve over hands that call us and is currently beating us? Yes.You can make arguments that betting 3/4 of the pot or so is the best play, and then shoving a non-diamond turn is stellar. However, anyone with a high diamond is donk-shoving over our CB anyways, so the sequence is kinda pointless, imo.a CB of 3/4 of the pot can let something as stupid as T9 with the Ten of diamonds hand around and either get all our chips or fold out to another bullet on the turn, Considering how early in the SNG this is, we're far better off getting someone to put their money in bad or go home. The major downside of shoving, though, is it announces our hand to a degree.. Cuz anyone with 2 diamonds isn't shoving there.Remember: good players aren't playing 2 diamonds for a 5x BB raise. So you are likely in the pot with bad players. Bad players will make pot-sized calls, and even all-in calls. You are pretty deep-stacked to be shoving, but they are pretty deep-stacked to be calling, too..Any thoughts on a check-raise here OOP? It may be the only way to win money while ahead on this hand. Remember: neither opponent has a diamond here a fair bit of the time as well. We can snap off some bluffs and win some money from the naked 7 of diamonds by CR'ing.This is why i like omaha8, btw.. cuz this is such an easy, easy fold without a solid post-flop lowdraw.

[TrueAce13]

Bet 200. Hope for a raise. Dodge AxKd. Make money

[SlackerInc]

I did shove, and villains folded. But I really wondered if there might not be a better approach.

[sennin]

Id bet like 210, call a shove/shove to a raise. If he flats and a diamond hits the turn im check/folding