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Massachusetts Ballot Initiative


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#41 timwakefield

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Posted 30 October 2008 - 04:49 PM

View Postvbnautilus, on Thursday, October 30th, 2008, 8:01 PM, said:

In fact, it was my early experience with natural psychoactive compounds that inspired me to pursue cognitive science in the first place.
Ironically, I have a friend who, after taking mushrooms for the first time, decided that he no longer wanted to pursue his degree in pre-med with a plan on entering neurosurgery, but would instead study what he really wanted - creative writing. I'm not exaggerating at all. However, no he did not become a Turn on Tune in Drop out guy, and he is doing well making comedy these days.
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#42 Nimue1995

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Posted 30 October 2008 - 07:06 PM

View Poststrategy, on Thursday, October 30th, 2008, 4:19 PM, said:

I don't really see the distinction between booze and weed, tbh.also, lawrence has something similar to this. getting busted with weed is like $300 ticket (as long as you don't have some ridiculous amount).
Same thing in Missoula. In fact there is a law on the books that the police cannot pursue an investigation into marjuana use if that's the only law they suspect being broken. So basically they ignore pot use as long as you're not on the street corner selling it I guess. It was considered to be mainly an issue of budget and Missoula felt their police force could put their time to more productive use than busting majuana smokers. That might be why the Hell's Angels decided to hold their convention here this summer,lol. :club:

View PostBalloon guy, on Thursday, October 30th, 2008, 4:51 PM, said:

I hate that they are raising my taxes on Cigars by 110% at a time, making it illegal for me to smoke these in most places, all while putting effort in legalizing a carcinogenic which stunts your sperm count.where's the justice?
Seems to me that's an added benefit for legalizing it. Think of it as planned obsolescence.
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#43 copernicus

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Posted 30 October 2008 - 07:20 PM

View Postvbnautilus, on Thursday, October 30th, 2008, 5:01 PM, said:

The effect of almost every psychoactive drug involves an interaction between your intention, your environment, and the substance itself. Anything that changes my perspective is often enough to help me see a problem or thought in a new light. In fact, it was my early experience with natural psychoactive compounds that inspired me to pursue cognitive science in the first place. The place these plants have come to hold in our culture is a shame, and to me represents much of what is misguided about modern life. Part of the reason they are disrespected and misused is because there is no cultural foundation for their proper use. The fact that they are illegal is total koyaanisqatsi.
The effect of almost every psychoactive drug is self-delusion. You would have found that "new light" without it.
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#44 copernicus

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Posted 30 October 2008 - 07:21 PM

View Posttimwakefield, on Thursday, October 30th, 2008, 5:49 PM, said:

Ironically, I have a friend who, after taking mushrooms for the first time, decided that he no longer wanted to pursue his degree in pre-med with a plan on entering neurosurgery, but would instead study what he really wanted - creative writing. I'm not exaggerating at all. However, no he did not become a Turn on Tune in Drop out guy, and he is doing well making comedy these days.
Introspection and self actualization is a bit different than "creativity"
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#45 vbnautilus

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Posted 30 October 2008 - 07:26 PM

View Postcopernicus, on Thursday, October 30th, 2008, 8:20 PM, said:

The effect of almost every psychoactive drug is self-delusion. You would have found that "new light" without it.
I strongly disagree.Let me give you an example. The brain of an adult human has a real knack for linguistically classifying everything it sees. The downside to this is that we often experience the world entirely through these concepts. If you take something that temporarily interferes with that linguistic process, you are then able to consciously process the perceptual information before it has been classified. This not only gives you access to an important source of information, but may also reveal to you the way your cognitive process normally works.

#46 timwakefield

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Posted 30 October 2008 - 07:37 PM

View Postcopernicus, on Thursday, October 30th, 2008, 11:21 PM, said:

Introspection and self actualization is a bit different than "creativity"
I wasn't talking about creativity, vb was :club:.Edit: Oh, the creative writing part. Well the point was just that it was funny that the decided to not do brains, while vb decided to do them, to put it grossly.
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#47 copernicus

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Posted 30 October 2008 - 07:38 PM

View Postvbnautilus, on Thursday, October 30th, 2008, 8:26 PM, said:

I strongly disagree.Let me give you an example. The brain of an adult human has a real knack for linguistically classifying everything it sees. The downside to this is that we often experience the world entirely through these concepts. If you take something that temporarily interferes with that linguistic process, you are then able to consciously process the perceptual information before it has been classified. This not only gives you access to an important source of information, but may also reveal to you the way your cognitive process normally works.
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#48 hblask

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Posted 31 October 2008 - 06:58 AM

The government owns your body and therefore gets to decide what you can put into it, for good or for bad.Line up an accept it, and stop with the "freedom of choice" nonsense.
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#49 RealMagnetic

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Posted 31 October 2008 - 08:19 AM

View Posthblask, on Friday, October 31st, 2008, 10:58 AM, said:

The government owns your body and therefore gets to decide what you can put into it, for good or for bad.Line up an accept it, and stop with the "freedom of choice" nonsense.
Brutal....I think that marijuana and alcohol both have their good and bad side. We could save money as a country my not criminalizing it. I agree with what someone said about how when you find out you were lied to and weed wasn't the embodiment of evil, then hey maybe these other drugs aren't either.I am just not sold on why we need our government to butt into our lives in this way? Educate us, but don't limit us. I can assume many of the laws we have on drugs are related to when in the 1800's and turn of the century so many people were addicted to the then legal opiates. Well, if people were adequately educated I think that sort of thing would be minimized. Then again, people are pretty darn stupid. And so we come full circle to why we have these laws.

#50 DonkSlayer

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Posted 31 October 2008 - 08:37 AM

View PostRealMagnetic, on Friday, October 31st, 2008, 12:19 PM, said:

Brutal....I think that marijuana and alcohol both have their good and bad side. We could save money as a country my not criminalizing it.
Not if we have universal, single-payer healthcare.
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#51 RealMagnetic

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Posted 31 October 2008 - 08:44 AM

View PostDonkSlayer, on Friday, October 31st, 2008, 12:37 PM, said:

Not if we have universal, single-payer healthcare.
I don't get it.

#52 dapokerbum

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Posted 31 October 2008 - 09:02 AM

View Postcopernicus, on Thursday, October 30th, 2008, 8:20 PM, said:

The effect of almost every psychoactive drug is self-delusion. You would have found that "new light" without it.
This is something i have thought about a lot. Now there has to be some thing is your brain that gets switched on when you take drugs. Is there a way to turn this switch without the help of drugs. IMO there isn't, but say there is. Then what do you do. Can you tell people that they can't go to that state of mind? Or do you educate them about those effects? And would you outlaw all the teachers that would be teaching people how to reach this state of mind? Oh yeah, how many drugs have you taken in your life cope? It seems like you had a bad acid trip in high school or something.
There was madness in any direction, at any hour…You could strike sparks anywhere. There was a fantastic universal sense that whatever we were doing was right, that we were winning…. And that, I think, was the handle-that sense of inevitable victory over the forces of Old and Evil. Not in any mean or military sense; we didn’t need that. Our energy would simply prevail. There was no point in fighting-on our side or theirs. We had all the momentum; we were riding the crest of a high and beautiful wave….So now, less than five years later, you can go up on a steep hill in Las Vegas and look West, and with the right kind of eyes you can almost see the high-water mark-that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back.

#53 hblask

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Posted 31 October 2008 - 09:08 AM

View PostRealMagnetic, on Friday, October 31st, 2008, 11:19 AM, said:

I can assume many of the laws we have on drugs are related to when in the 1800's and turn of the century so many people were addicted to the then legal opiates.
100 years later, billions of dollars later, at a huge loss of civil liberties and at the cost of destruction of entire neighborhoods, addiction rates are: IDENTICAL to before the Insane War on Drugs.Yep, that's some good policy there.
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#54 hblask

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Posted 31 October 2008 - 09:10 AM

View Postcopernicus, on Thursday, October 30th, 2008, 10:20 PM, said:

The effect of almost every psychoactive drug is self-delusion. You would have found that 'new light'; without it.
Scientists studying the effects of magic mushroom find the opposite. The magic mushroom effect is real, even in controlled studies -- people have real, lasting psychological breakthroughs during magic mushroom trips.
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#55 Balloon guy

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Posted 31 October 2008 - 09:11 AM

View Posthblask, on Friday, October 31st, 2008, 10:10 AM, said:

Scientists studying the effects of magic mushroom find the opposite. The magic mushroom effect is real, even in controlled studies -- people have real, lasting psychological breakthroughs during magic mushroom trips.
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#56 Balloon guy

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Posted 31 October 2008 - 09:11 AM

View Posthblask, on Friday, October 31st, 2008, 10:08 AM, said:

100 years later, billions of dollars later, at a huge loss of civil liberties and at the cost of destruction of entire neighborhoods, addiction rates are: IDENTICAL to before the Insane War on Drugs.Yep, that's some good policy there.
On par with the war on poverty but noone wants to quit that
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#57 hblask

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Posted 31 October 2008 - 09:13 AM

View PostBalloon guy, on Friday, October 31st, 2008, 12:11 PM, said:

On par with the war on poverty but noone wants to quit that
No one?At any rate, justifying the existence of a wasteful program that has no positive gains and lots of negatives based on the existence of other, similarly bad programs doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
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#58 Balloon guy

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Posted 31 October 2008 - 09:14 AM

View Posthblask, on Friday, October 31st, 2008, 10:13 AM, said:

No one?At any rate, justifying the existence of a wasteful program that has no positive gains and lots of negatives based on the existence of other, similarly bad programs doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
How about protecting the health of our country?
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#59 vbnautilus

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Posted 31 October 2008 - 09:14 AM

View Postdapokerbum, on Friday, October 31st, 2008, 10:02 AM, said:

This is something i have thought about a lot. Now there has to be some thing is your brain that gets switched on when you take drugs. Is there a way to turn this switch without the help of drugs. IMO there isn't, but say there is. Then what do you do. Can you tell people that they can't go to that state of mind? Or do you educate them about those effects? And would you outlaw all the teachers that would be teaching people how to reach this state of mind? Oh yeah, how many drugs have you taken in your life cope? It seems like you had a bad acid trip in high school or something.
The answer is a qualified yes... most drugs interact with endogenous systems in the brain that can be accessed in other ways. For many drugs, however, it's quite difficult to achieve the level of effect that the drug produces without pharmaceutical intervention. For example, ecstasy stimulates the release of serotonin, which is normally released when you do various things that make your mood elevate...but pretty much no one is going to get the kind of serotonin dump they get with ecstasy just by riding a bike or whatever. There are other ways of directly affecting brain function too, like transcranial magnetic stimulation, that may eventually be used to alter one's state of mind intentionally. Your point is a good one that essentially the government is trying to regulate which states of mind we visit.

#60 x Swift x

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Posted 31 October 2008 - 09:16 AM

Honestly just legalise it, sell it in shops, tax it heavily and solve the countries debt problems with the extra money :club:




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