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Massachusetts Ballot Initiative


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#21 timwakefield

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Posted 30 October 2008 - 02:53 PM

View PostJeepster80125, on Thursday, October 30th, 2008, 6:46 PM, said:

Regardless of what people say, marijuana is a gateway drug. I smoked pot when I was 15, and I graduated to other drugs after that. There is no doubt in my mind that if I never smoked pot, I never would have used other drugs. Of course I say this with 20-20 hindsight.
I've smoked pot for 8 or 9 years and I've never tried any other drugs, nor have I wanted to. Ok except mushrooms once, but that's hardly what you're talking about. If pot didn't exist, maybe alcohol would have been your gateway drug? Blaming hard-core drug use on starting with marijuana is unfair, in my humble opinion. It's like being a hardcore, bottle-a-day vodkaholic, and blaming your alcoholism on when your parents used to let you drink half a beer at dinner when you were 14.
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#22 timwakefield

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Posted 30 October 2008 - 02:56 PM

View PostBalloon guy, on Thursday, October 30th, 2008, 6:51 PM, said:

I hate that they are raising my taxes on Cigars by 110% at a time, making it illegal for me to smoke these in most places, all while putting effort in legalizing a carcinogenic which stunts your sperm count.where's the justice?
California =! Massachusetts? I figured you had the Cuban hook-up anyways...
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Steve: Was she a homeless person?
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#23 Balloon guy

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Posted 30 October 2008 - 02:57 PM

View Posttimwakefield, on Thursday, October 30th, 2008, 3:56 PM, said:

California =! Massachusetts? I figured you had the Cuban hook-up anyways...
I wishAlthough for the most part I am just as happy with Dominicans and Hondurans
I use my cigar smoke as idiot repellent

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#24 vbnautilus

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Posted 30 October 2008 - 03:00 PM

View PostBalloon guy, on Thursday, October 30th, 2008, 3:51 PM, said:

I hate that they are raising my taxes on Cigars by 110% at a time, making it illegal for me to smoke these in most places, all while putting effort in legalizing a carcinogenic which stunts your sperm count.
Marijuana is not carcinogenic and can actually fight cancer.

#25 strategy

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Posted 30 October 2008 - 03:02 PM

View PostJeepster80125, on Thursday, October 30th, 2008, 5:46 PM, said:

Regardless of what people say, marijuana is a gateway drug. I smoked pot when I was 15, and I graduated to other drugs after that. There is no doubt in my mind that if I never smoked pot, I never would have used other drugs. Of course I say this with 20-20 hindsight.It's ridiculously easy to get, and it's not dangerous. There aren't many drugs that are safe, cheap, and available. That's the reason it's a gateway drug.I don't really think people can argue that marijuana isn't destructive, addictive, or otherwise harmful. It's all of those things.But, the exact same argument can be said for alcohol and tobacco, but those are legal substances. I think that marijuana should be decriminalized.The war on drugs is a total waste of time and resources, and hasn't done anything to reduce the amount of americans consuming illegal substances. It could be argued that the war on drugs has cost our country more than it has helped.Is it time for a seperate thread on this?
I think it is time for a separate thread, yeah, but I gotta say that you sound really conflicted.
QUOTE (ShakeZuma @ Wednesday, November 2nd, 2011, 4:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
seriously though, with that grammar it's really like, I mean it doesn't bother me as much that she gets beat, you know?


#26 Jeepster80125

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Posted 30 October 2008 - 03:03 PM

View Posttimwakefield, on Thursday, October 30th, 2008, 10:53 PM, said:

I've smoked pot for 8 or 9 years and I've never tried any other drugs, nor have I wanted to. Ok except mushrooms once, but that's hardly what you're talking about. If pot didn't exist, maybe alcohol would have been your gateway drug? Blaming hard-core drug use on starting with marijuana is unfair, in my humble opinion. It's like being a hardcore, bottle-a-day vodkaholic, and blaming your alcoholism on when your parents used to let you drink half a beer at dinner when you were 14.
I'm pretty certain we agree here.That said, I believe that people who smoke pot are more likely to use heavier drugs than people who never try marijuana. That's all I'm saying. But the argument could be made that the reason it's a gateway drug is because it's easy to get, safe, etc.I think it should be legal and taxed just like tobacco or alcohol. Impossible to do though, so where does that leave us?
Posted Image
QUOTE (Spademan @ Friday, May 22nd, 2009, 4:24 PM)
We are both being judgmental, the only difference is my judgments are well reasoned, well presented and actually have something to do with reality whereas yours are inane assumption wrapped in a steaming pile of contradiction.

#27 Jeepster80125

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Posted 30 October 2008 - 03:05 PM

View Poststrategy, on Thursday, October 30th, 2008, 11:02 PM, said:

I think it is time for a separate thread, yeah, but I gotta say that you sound really conflicted.
Absolutely not arguing that point. I think arguments can be made either way regarding the gateway comment, but at the end of the day it doesn't matter.I don't think it will ever be legal though.
Posted Image
QUOTE (Spademan @ Friday, May 22nd, 2009, 4:24 PM)
We are both being judgmental, the only difference is my judgments are well reasoned, well presented and actually have something to do with reality whereas yours are inane assumption wrapped in a steaming pile of contradiction.

#28 Balloon guy

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Posted 30 October 2008 - 03:05 PM

View Postvbnautilus, on Thursday, October 30th, 2008, 4:00 PM, said:

Marijuana is not carcinogenic and can actually fight cancer.
Get your propaganda away from me.I've seen the studiesPosted Image
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#29 strategy

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Posted 30 October 2008 - 03:06 PM

View PostJeepster80125, on Thursday, October 30th, 2008, 6:03 PM, said:

Impossible to do though, so where does that leave us?
why's it impossible?
QUOTE (ShakeZuma @ Wednesday, November 2nd, 2011, 4:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
seriously though, with that grammar it's really like, I mean it doesn't bother me as much that she gets beat, you know?


#30 vbnautilus

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Posted 30 October 2008 - 03:08 PM

View PostBalloon guy, on Thursday, October 30th, 2008, 4:05 PM, said:

Get your propaganda away from me.
Hey, I wasn't denying it leads to drug-crazed abandon, manslaughter, and rape, just cancer. Sheesh.

#31 strategy

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Posted 30 October 2008 - 03:08 PM

marijuana cigarettes! doing god knows what!
QUOTE (ShakeZuma @ Wednesday, November 2nd, 2011, 4:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
seriously though, with that grammar it's really like, I mean it doesn't bother me as much that she gets beat, you know?


#32 Balloon guy

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Posted 30 October 2008 - 03:11 PM

View Postvbnautilus, on Thursday, October 30th, 2008, 4:08 PM, said:

Hey, I wasn't denying it leads to drug-crazed abandon, manslaughter, and rape, just cancer. Sheesh.
LOL :club:
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Most bad government has come out of too much government. Thomas Jefferson

#33 copernicus

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Posted 30 October 2008 - 03:23 PM

View PostJeepster80125, on Thursday, October 30th, 2008, 4:03 PM, said:

I'm pretty certain we agree here.That said, I believe that people who smoke pot are more likely to use heavier drugs than people who never try marijuana. That's all I'm saying. But the argument could be made that the reason it's a gateway drug is because it's easy to get, safe, etc.I think it should be legal and taxed just like tobacco or alcohol. Impossible to do though, so where does that leave us?
Regardless of the "gateway drug" issue, I know far more people who's lives were negatively mpacted by pot than alcohol. Thats partly, but not entirely, a generational issue.
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#34 timwakefield

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Posted 30 October 2008 - 03:36 PM

View Postcopernicus, on Thursday, October 30th, 2008, 7:23 PM, said:

Regardless of the "gateway drug" issue, I know far more people who's lives were negatively mpacted by pot than alcohol. Thats partly, but not entirely, a generational issue.
Surely you agree that it should be legal though, yes? Smaller government, yes? The immediate effects or marijuana to a long-time-user are extraordinarily slight compared to the immediate effects of alcohol on an alcoholic. I probably got higher the first (and only) time I tried dip than I did the first time I got high off pot.
Karl: She was a bit -- what's the word that you can use, cuz I don't wanna offend anyone?
Steve: Was she a homeless person?
Karl: Yeah but sort of mental homeless.

#35 copernicus

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Posted 30 October 2008 - 03:46 PM

View Posttimwakefield, on Thursday, October 30th, 2008, 4:36 PM, said:

Surely you agree that it should be legal though, yes? Smaller government, yes? The immediate effects or marijuana to a long-time-user are extraordinarily slight compared to the immediate effects of alcohol on an alcoholic. I probably got higher the first (and only) time I tried dip than I did the first time I got high off pot.
I think it should be de-criminalized, not legal, and to a large extent it has been.
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#36 vbnautilus

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Posted 30 October 2008 - 03:50 PM

View Postcopernicus, on Thursday, October 30th, 2008, 4:46 PM, said:

I think it should be de-criminalized, not legal, and to a large extent it has been.
For the most part it hasn't been. Not enough at least. There's no reason why I shouldn't be able to legally sit in my living room and enjoy one of the fruits of the earth that enhances my creativity and productivity at no harm to anyone. Why should I have to close the blinds and hide when I'm not doing anything wrong?

#37 dapokerbum

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Posted 30 October 2008 - 03:51 PM

I have actually seen way more people devastated by alchohol and cigarettes than I have MJ. My grandfather just died from throat cancer and my dad has been an alchoholic all his life. He hasn't drank in almost a year, but he has upped his MJ consumption, which actually helps. I also have many friends that are productive members of society and yet instead of getting drunk at night they just get high.Also, on the gateway drug. I believe it leads to other drugs because growing up you are constantly told how bad drugs are and that you should stay away at all costs and that if you do these drugs your life will be over and you can look forward to being an addict on the street and sucking dick to get your drugs. Then we try some pot and we get high and we think to ourself well, if they lied about this then maybe they lide about the other drugs, so we try some of those. Some of us get addicted and some of us just try them and say nope not for me. I think they should take the billions of dollars that they use to fight the drug war and invest them into educating the masses on the reality of drugs. The guys that are going to be addicts are going to be addicts regardless of the legality. Why not just legalize everything, tax the hell out of it, let the addicts all kill themselves (Darwinism at it's finest) and let the rest of us live in peace. No more career criminals trying to peddle the drugs, no more "criminals" locked away for drug related activity (eases the tax berden there), and no more wasting money on this "war"Wow I actually wrote more than I thought I would...
There was madness in any direction, at any hour…You could strike sparks anywhere. There was a fantastic universal sense that whatever we were doing was right, that we were winning…. And that, I think, was the handle-that sense of inevitable victory over the forces of Old and Evil. Not in any mean or military sense; we didn’t need that. Our energy would simply prevail. There was no point in fighting-on our side or theirs. We had all the momentum; we were riding the crest of a high and beautiful wave….So now, less than five years later, you can go up on a steep hill in Las Vegas and look West, and with the right kind of eyes you can almost see the high-water mark-that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back.

#38 copernicus

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Posted 30 October 2008 - 03:54 PM

View Postvbnautilus, on Thursday, October 30th, 2008, 4:50 PM, said:

enhances my creativity and productivity
ROFL
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#39 vbnautilus

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Posted 30 October 2008 - 04:01 PM

View Postcopernicus, on Thursday, October 30th, 2008, 4:54 PM, said:

ROFL
The effect of almost every psychoactive drug involves an interaction between your intention, your environment, and the substance itself. Anything that changes my perspective is often enough to help me see a problem or thought in a new light. In fact, it was my early experience with natural psychoactive compounds that inspired me to pursue cognitive science in the first place. The place these plants have come to hold in our culture is a shame, and to me represents much of what is misguided about modern life. Part of the reason they are disrespected and misused is because there is no cultural foundation for their proper use. The fact that they are illegal is total koyaanisqatsi.

#40 CaneBrain

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Posted 30 October 2008 - 04:06 PM

View Postcopernicus, on Thursday, October 30th, 2008, 4:23 PM, said:

Regardless of the "gateway drug" issue, I know far more people who's lives were negatively mpacted by pot than alcohol. Thats partly, but not entirely, a generational issue.
I believe you....but I find this shocking. For me, I dont buy the argument that pot is just as bad as alcohol. As far as I am concerned, alcohol is ten times WORSE than pot. Quick story, when I was in college I was fairly friendly with one of the landlords who owned a lot of campus housing. I lived in a building with lots of pot smokers (hey, it's college). I asked the landlord if that bothered him. He said, hell no, I will take potheads over drunk college kids any day. Less property damage, less noise, less problems.And I agree with him. People are loud, rude, emotional, violent, and very much not themselves when drunk. (Nobody is all of these things when drunk obviously, but most people are more of one or two of those adjectives when inebriated.) Potheads are quiet and mostly stay on the couch and eat doritos. Now, I think that pot can have a very debilitating effect on people in that it can make them very lazy and remove their motivation. Very much an "escape" drug. But if I had to choose between having 10 potheads in my house or 10 drunks I am taking the potheads every time.
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