Should I Have Raised Pre-draw?

[bassplayer45459 0]

So i am on the fence with this one. With this two card draw and a raise in front of us and the amount of players, do we 3-bet, or do we call and welcome all the players with this type of hand? Once i am down to a one card draw, should i have lead out?PokerStars Game #21602376462: Triple Draw 2-7 Lowball Limit ($0.10/$0.20) - 2008/10/29 19:21:30 ETTable 'Siegena II' 6-max Seat #2 is the buttonSeat 1: outdraw209 ($5.36 in chips) Seat 2: modracer228 ($1.58 in chips) Seat 3: melchizadek0 ($7.86 in chips) Seat 4: bassplayer45 ($4 in chips) Seat 5: Donnzorz ($6.22 in chips) Seat 6: Andrew100 ($9.94 in chips) melchizadek0: posts small blind $0.05bassplayer45: posts big blind $0.10*** DEALING HANDS ***Dealt to bassplayer45 [7h 2d Qs Qc 3d]Donnzorz: folds Andrew100: raises $0.10 to $0.20outdraw209: calls $0.20modracer228: calls $0.20melchizadek0: calls $0.15bassplayer45: calls $0.10*** FIRST DRAW ***melchizadek0: stands pat bassplayer45: discards 2 cards [Qs Qc]Dealt to bassplayer45 [7h 2d 3d] [9h 4h]Andrew100: discards 1 cardoutdraw209: discards 2 cardsmodracer228: discards 1 cardmelchizadek0: checks bassplayer45: checks Andrew100: bets $0.10outdraw209: folds modracer228: raises $0.10 to $0.20outdraw209 leaves the tablemelchizadek0: calls $0.20bassplayer45: calls $0.20Andrew100: calls $0.10*** SECOND DRAW ***melchizadek0: discards 2 cardsbassplayer45: discards 1 card [9h]Dealt to bassplayer45 [7h 2d 3d 4h] [6c]Andrew100: discards 1 cardmodracer228: stands pat melchizadek0: checks bassplayer45: checks Andrew100: checks modracer228: bets $0.20melchizadek0: calls $0.20bassplayer45: raises $0.20 to $0.40Andrew100: folds modracer228: calls $0.20melchizadek0: calls $0.20*** THIRD DRAW ***melchizadek0: discards 1 cardbassplayer45: stands pat on [7h 2d 3d 4h 6c]modracer228: stands pat melchizadek0: checks bassplayer45: bets $0.20modracer228: calls $0.20melchizadek0: calls $0.20*** SHOW DOWN ***bassplayer45: shows [7h 2d 6c 4h 3d] (Lo: 7,6,4,3,2)modracer228: mucks hand melchizadek0: mucks hand bassplayer45 collected $3.43 from pot*** SUMMARY ***Total pot $3.60 | Rake $0.17 Seat 1: outdraw209 folded after the 1st DrawSeat 2: modracer228 (button) mucked [8d 3c 5s 4c 6s]Seat 3: melchizadek0 (small blind) mucked [5d 4d 7s 3h 8h]Seat 4: bassplayer45 (big blind) showed [7h 2d 6c 4h 3d] and won ($3.43) with Lo: 7,6,4,3,2Seat 5: Donnzorz folded before the Draw (didn't bet)Seat 6: Andrew100 folded after the 2nd Draw

[Chet Chetterson 0]

I would think bet with the made 9 after draw 1 to try and get people out of the hand but since it's a small bet maybe it's not worth it. Do you even consider patting the made 9 or are you too early in position to justify that move (or I could be a noob in saying that you keep the pat 9)?

[checkymcfold 0]

I would think bet with the made 9 after draw 1 to try and get people out of the hand but since it's a small bet maybe it's not worth it. Do you even consider patting the made 9 or are you too early in position to justify that move (or I could be a noob in saying that you keep the pat 9)?

you wouldn't want to keep the nine that multiway. maybe if it was 3h or less.predraw at a low limit game, i'm capping any 237-257 with glee in a multiway pot from any position, assuming that people are getting dragged in with all sorts of garbage.

[jmbreslin 0]

predraw at a low limit game, i'm capping any 237-257 with glee in a multiway pot from any position, assuming that people are getting dragged in with all sorts of garbage.

I'm not, but we play our TD quite differently - I prefer a lower variance approach With the raise in front and several calls you have to assume there are lots of dead low cards, which is going to make it much harder to complete a good 2-card draw. I think you played it just fine and won a nice pot.

[checkymcfold 0]

I'm not, but we play our TD quite differently - I prefer a lower variance approach With the raise in front and several calls you have to assume there are lots of dead low cards, which is going to make it much harder to complete a good 2-card draw. I think you played it just fine and won a nice pot.

this line of thinking is akin to not raising ak in LHE because you know you're getting 6 callers at your live 3/6 table. it's absolutely incorrect, imo.

[antistuff 0]

if a good player raises, a eh player on the button calls, you can consider just calling here. with this many in you should reraise because at least two of them are guaranteed to have crap like 467.

[jmbreslin 0]

this line of thinking is akin to not raising ak in LHE because you know you're getting 6 callers at your live 3/6 table. it's absolutely incorrect, imo.

It's absolutely not the same thing because you very likely need cards that are in their hands to complete yours. What are the odds of Hero completing his two card draw when he has 4 opponents who are all holding some combination of cards between 2-7? That's a whole lot of dead cards. Please explain to me why this reasoning is faulty.

[checkymcfold 0]

It's absolutely not the same thing because you very likely need cards that are in their hands to complete yours. What are the odds of Hero completing his two card draw when he has 4 opponents who are all holding some combination of cards between 2-7? That's a whole lot of dead cards. Please explain to me why this reasoning is faulty.

if you have 237, one guy has 258, one guy has some random 2 card draw, and one guy has 2568, you have more than 25% equity. ergo, you raise.you need their cards, they need your cards. that part's a wash, and should be ignored.as i've said before, a lot of the reason that you inflate pots early in triple draw hands is so that you can actually draw and outthink your opponents on later streets. if, for instance, you're playing this pot and it's HU by the end, and your opponent is bad, you can snow every time and win way more often than you need to to have it be profitable. if, however, you're only playing 2BB HU pots on the end, you can't snow as often and it hurts your winrate. there are lots of things that happen when you go nuts early in a hand, much less when you have an equity edge.i'm not lying to you, jmbreslin. this is an instacap and it's not even close, imo.

[jmbreslin 0]

I didn't think you were lying to me, I just need explanations.I do have one question, though. Doesn't building pots early make it harder to steal those pots later, because opponents will have odds to call with weaker hands?

[checkymcfold 0]

I didn't think you were lying to me, I just need explanations.I do have one question, though. Doesn't building pots early make it harder to steal those pots later, because opponents will have odds to call with weaker hands?

bad players will never call the end with like a Q+ when you snow. at some games it's actually more profitable to set up a snow literally every hand you play than it is to play the hand "properly."

[jmbreslin 0]

Aren't bad players more likely to call on the end with Q+ than good players are?

[checkymcfold 0]

Aren't bad players more likely to call on the end with Q+ than good players are?

people who don't know the rules might be, but bad players will be like "oh i missed and he bet, so i don't win."good players know when to call the end with 33.bad players don't know when to call with ace, king, or queen high.terrible players could be playing quad aces like it's the nuts.three different categories.