That Scene In The Matrix

[navybuttons 15]

so in the matrix there is a scene where neo gets hacked into knowledge and learns really cool amazing abilities. this makes me think that all of us, in a way, are plugged into the internet. if you're anything like me you spend a lot of time on here and other places learning about things. it can be what a ruined wedding looks like or the approximate first recorded exact date, we're all just downloading information into our brains way faster than any generation has before. i can download my friends and co-workers way better here (where i only hear the important and funny stuff coming out of their mouth), i can learn and play poker on the internet way faster than i ever could have 10 years ago, i can teach, discuss, and learn at an incredible rate, and not just poker but all forms of learning. i can instantly compare ayn rand's objectivism to deconstruction or gun laws between states. and i've only been online for 1/2 of my life or so. the next generation beyond mine having being raised with it will be the beginning of something truly amazing to us today). it's my contention that this is where the future of education is going. is this a big enough issue that it's super important that the entire world is on board for all of what's about to happen? like if you believe that education is the answer to racism how much money would that education to rid a state of racism have cost if done in front of a computer?

[chrozzo 19]

follow the white rabbit.knock knock navyuttons.

[uncooper 1]

So wait, that show True Blood on hbo is a metaphor for gay rights?

[jmkiser 0]

Good post, but I don't think it's as trippy as it seems to be ;)The growth of the human race from the beginning until now has progressed the same way.Computers and then the internet are things among every tool that we have benefited from over tons of generations. We can think all night long how crazy it's going to be for the current mass of 5 year olds who are going to grow up with this incredible tool. But then again, we can also think about the people before the people who started writing.I mean think of it! The incredible ease and transportation of massive amounts of information. The environment that our children grow in... able to read all sorts of things and discover all kinds of information at an ease that we've never been able to imagine before!!!!!! :POr what it was to have the radio. Millions of households able to listen to the same thing at once... immediately! And then televisions? Mind-blowing

[vbnautilus 48]

a very serious methaphor or am i crazy?

Both? :DIt's most certainly a metaphor, but I actually don't read it as literally as you do. (Not sure exactly which scene you're talking about though)... The way I see it, when Neo sees through the reality to the streams of numbers and stuff - he is seeing through the illusion created by his mind - what the Hindus call maya - to the truth behind things. The whole movie is an enlightenment metaphor. Neo dies to the physical and is reborn to the immaterial, the spirit... its the same myth behind every good religion. He no longer identifies with the physical form of Neo and is thus no longer bound by its limitations.

[navybuttons 15]

(Not sure exactly which scene you're talking about though)...

there's a scene where they start teaching him how to work within the matrix. they teach him jiu jitsu, kung fu, etc. for his combat training. the information gets plugged into his mind faster than a book and years of practice.

I mean think of it! The incredible ease and transportation of massive amounts of information. The environment that our children grow in... able to read all sorts of things and discover all kinds of information at an ease that we've never been able to imagine before!!!!!! :POr what it was to have the radio. Millions of households able to listen to the same thing at once... immediately! And then televisions? Mind-blowing

i very very much understand what you are saying. but there are great limitations to television and radio in regard to their importance on education. it is this significance which makes it unique. when the television first came out i'm sure people understood the impact on human lives and oftentimes they were only slightly shortsighted. the thing about the internet is that it's education practicality blows any other medium so far out of the water. in 15 minutes i could have the best language developing software teaching me portuguese, the world's best economists giving me breakdowns of recessions, and advice from great accountants on how to file my taxes as a poker player. 15 MINUTES. specifically i thinking of the impact on the subject of racism (from the belief that education can cause the end of it). it's my contention that if you teach enough history, evolution, genetics, and culture then people's understanding goes up and hatred, fear, and prejudice go down. if computers could teach children at a rate of 2X, or if computers could be optimized to help teachers teach at 2X, we'd see a phenomenal boost in our educational system and as such larger problems would subside.idealistic? yes. impossible? i don't believe so.

[chgocubs99 0]

Good post, but I don't think it's as trippy as it seems to be ;)The growth of the human race from the beginning until now has progressed the same way.Computers and then the internet are things among every tool that we have benefited from over tons of generations. We can think all night long how crazy it's going to be for the current mass of 5 year olds who are going to grow up with this incredible tool. But then again, we can also think about the people before the people who started writing.I mean think of it! The incredible ease and transportation of massive amounts of information. The environment that our children grow in... able to read all sorts of things and discover all kinds of information at an ease that we've never been able to imagine before!!!!!! :POr what it was to have the radio. Millions of households able to listen to the same thing at once... immediately! And then televisions? Mind-blowing

Meh. I think you are vastly, vastly underestimating the importance of radio and television in our world's history if you are writing about it sarcastically in an otherwise serious post. Those two things chanced the landscape of our culture more than anything, and nothing has changed our culture as much since...until the internet. I'd write more about this but I have to go to work now...just think of what you're life would be like without those three things. Importance in changing the history of the world in the last thousand years:1) Printing press (and the things that spawned from it)2) Motorized transportation3) Electricity4) Television5) Telephone6) Radio7) InternetThese could be re-ordered...for example obviously there would be no television without electricity. If you discount that, however, I would flip-flop TV and put it at #3, and I think an argument can be made for #2 as well. I don't see how there could be an argument for anything but the printing press being #1.

[navybuttons 15]

according to the best futurist on the planet, sometime in the early 21st century:Computers dominate the educational environment. Courseware is intelligent enough to understand and correct the inaccuracies in the conceptual model of a student. Media technology allows students to interact with simulations of the very systems and personalities they are studying.score-navybuttons: 1nazi's: 0

[HollywoodAFD 0]

Both? :DIt's most certainly a metaphor, but I actually don't read it as literally as you do. (Not sure exactly which scene you're talking about though)... The way I see it, when Neo sees through the reality to the streams of numbers and stuff - he is seeing through the illusion created by his mind - what the Hindus call maya - to the truth behind things. The whole movie is an enlightenment metaphor. Neo dies to the physical and is reborn to the immaterial, the spirit... its the same myth behind every good religion. He no longer identifies with the physical form of Neo and is thus no longer bound by its limitations.

What he said !I had to watch it twice before I understood it too.

[Sal Paradise 57]

chicks!

[SuitedAces21 2,722]

Wasnt the entire idea ripped from an Aristotle story?Something about a cave and on the wall of the cave were the reflections of the original things in the world, and all you see is the reflection, never leaving the cave.But yeah, I think you can look at that scene that way, Nabu. But Im not sure if they were trying to say that or not.Edit: Looked it up and it was Plato. Plato's Allegory of the cave.

[hblask 1]

OP: Post first, THEN get high and watch the Matrix. Thx.j/k, It is interesting how the world has changed in so short a time. I doubt my son will ever use a phone book or a paper map, and probably not a paper encyclopedia (although schools are having a hard time accepting progress.) And now, every 13 y/o knows what anal stretching is, something I didn't find out even existed until I was in my 40s.

[navybuttons 15]

Wasnt the entire idea ripped from an Aristotle story?Something about a cave and on the wall of the cave were the reflections of the original things in the world, and all you see is the reflection, never leaving the cave.But yeah, I think you can look at that scene that way, Nabu. But Im not sure if they were trying to say that or not.

i think the allegory of the cave only applies in so much as that people may be shortsighted in not realizing what a phenomenal impact technology has on our lives. if i was a parent right now i would do EVERYTHING in my power to make sure my child can use computers better than anyone else her age. like you know how in T2 (an awesome movie) both sarah and the arnold will do anything to protect john? it would be like that. i don't have delusions that my offspring are more important than anyone else's (aside from the typical father feeling), but i would just view it as that imperative. the shadows would represent the world we see it today, and the real world would be the future where our children's abilities in this world will be determined by their ability to understand technology.making sure that they are balanced with friends and relationships and the human experience in general is also of extreme importance.edit from 6 months later: given the chance i might consider taking back the first sentence of this response. might not.

[aucu 3]

so in the matrix there is a scene where neo gets hacked into knowledge and learns really cool amazing abilities.

Love that scene

[Sheiky 0]

More information doesn't necessarily equal more knowledge or understanding though, Gladwell also mentions that sometimes having too much information can interfere with the accuracy of a judgment, or a doctor's diagnosis. The challenge is to identify and focus on only the most significant information. The other information could be just noise and can confuse the decision maker. Collecting more and more information, in most cases, just reinforces our judgment but does not help to make it more accurate. He explains that better judgements can be executed from simplicity and frugality of information, rather than the more common belief that greater information about a patient is proportional to an improved diagnosis.I don't really get the point about computerized education as it relates to school. I mean, I see that you're linking the increased avalibility of information>better education>less prejudice and ignorance>better world. But in reality, it's not going to work like that. Computers cannot make teaching two times as fast because they're basically just doing the same job as the teacher is doing, not to mention that most people could not handle the change in pace and aren't interested in school in the first place. People who want to learn more can do so via computers, but the real problem is that the vast majority of people do not and hence computerizing the system will not really improve education standards for those who aren't interested.

[hblask 1]

I don't really get the point about computerized education as it relates to school. I mean, I see that you're linking the increased avalibility of information>better education>less prejudice and ignorance>better world.But in reality, it's not going to work like that. Computers cannot make teaching two times as fast because they're basically just doing the same job as the teacher is doing, not to mention that most people could not handle the change in pace and aren't interested in school in the first place.

The first thing computer-aided teaching can do is to give more information faster to the people who can handle it. So suddenly our best and brightest know that someone has already studied some obscure medical advance, and therefore we don't have to reinvent the wheel, but instead can expand knowledge by building on the previous knowledge. So it's an accelerator for those at the top.Second, different people learn different way, so people who would've struggled under one-size-fits-all education can now have a chance to be in the top group.Third, people may be exposed to areas of knowledge that are particularly suited to their brains/personality/temperament that they previously would not have access to, so people who would've been left behind because they've never found the slice of life that resonates with their personality now have a much better chance of finding it.

[CindyLou 11]

More information doesn't necessarily equal more knowledge or understanding though, Gladwell also mentions that sometimes having too much information can interfere with the accuracy of a judgment, or a doctor's diagnosis. The challenge is to identify and focus on only the most significant information. The other information could be just noise and can confuse the decision maker. Collecting more and more information, in most cases, just reinforces our judgment but does not help to make it more accurate. He explains that better judgements can be executed from simplicity and frugality of information, rather than the more common belief that greater information about a patient is proportional to an improved diagnosis.

100 years from now the stunning accuracy of Google 3000 will filter out all the noise.I mean Google 2100.But Google 3000, I mean, that’s really going to be something, right?

[vbnautilus 48]

This discussion reminds me a lot of a book I read recently by Vernor Vinge: Rainbow's EndWhich deals with a future in which people have present access to huge networks of information. Related to Sheiky's point one of the things they are trained on in school is how to deal with searching, sifting, and analyzing information to find what's important. Also, since everyone "wears" computers with contact lenses that project images over the landscape it relates to the matrix issue of the blurring of virtual reality and reality. Highly recommended.

[WrongWay 0]

Wasnt the entire idea ripped from an Aristotle story?Something about a cave and on the wall of the cave were the reflections of the original things in the world, and all you see is the reflection, never leaving the cave.

Yes, "The Matrix" is really just Arestotle's cave and asking, "How do we know our reality is real?".As for the knowledge dump, I think perhaps the author of the OP misses a point. The knowledge he downloads is really just a program that runs within the Matrix. I can learn to play Wii baseball, but that does not mean I can then go play baseball in the pros! When Neo learns to fight in the Matrix, it does not mean that Mr. Anderson can fight in "the real world". Just because he can stop bullets, fly, etc. in the Matrix, does not mean he can really do those things in the "real world".That said, the internet does make more inforamtion available... some of that info is good, and much of it is total garbage. You have to know how to sort the data, or next thing you know you'll be thinking Palin goes hunting in a flag bikini while Obama is a member of Al Quaida.You can learn from the internet, but the internet will not be able to teach you how to learn.

[vbnautilus 48]

It's also important to point out that from a neurological perspective there are different kinds of learning. Declarative knowledge, our knowledge of facts and information about the world relies on different brain structures than does skill learning. We can learn information like who Britney Spears is dating or what the structure of hemoglobin is from the internet, but learning how to do something, like the kind of fighting Neo does, is not something you can feasibly just "download". It involves a total reorganization of the motor control systems complete with calibration of feedback from the muscles, etc - i.e. practice.

[LongLiveYorke 38]

Yes, "The Matrix" is really just Arestotle's cave and asking, "How do we know our reality is real?".

Head assplode

As for the knowledge dump, I think perhaps the author of the OP misses a point. The knowledge he downloads is really just a program that runs within the Matrix. I can learn to play Wii baseball, but that does not mean I can then go play baseball in the pros! When Neo learns to fight in the Matrix, it does not mean that Mr. Anderson can fight in "the real world". Just because he can stop bullets, fly, etc. in the Matrix, does not mean he can really do those things in the "real world".

This is pretty flagrantly incorrect. There are two separate things going on. When he is being trained, Neo both learns new things in terms of straight up knowledge and he also learns how to bend the program of the Matrix to his will. When he learns how to fly a helicopter via direct download into his brain, he'll still remember how to do that in the real world. So, in theory, Neo in the real world would be one of the best martial artist by today's standards.However, when he jumps across buildings or dodges bullets, this is purely related to manipulation of the matrix and certainly couldn't be replicated in the real world.We all clear with this? It's important.

[WrongWay 0]

When he is being trained, Neo both learns new things in terms of straight up knowledge and he also learns how to bend the program of the Matrix to his will. When he learns how to fly a helicopter via direct download into his brain, he'll still remember how to do that in the real world.

Incorrect. You NEVER see him do ANY of the things in the "real world" that he is trained to do in the Matrix. After learning martial arts in the Matrix, he would not know it any better in the real world than you would know martial arts after having learned it in a dream. He knows how to fly a Metrix helecopter, but a real helicopter may work completely differently.As for the ability to bend the program of the Matrix, part of that is learning to use the altered programs they load into the matrix... the jump program, etc. The freed humans have hacked the matrix and altered the rules slightly, you just have to know them and trust your ability to use them. The rest of the "bending" is when he accepts he is "the one" and he has the ability to hack the program as he goes.And finally, are we really arguing about a movie as if it were anything but pure fiction?

[LongLiveYorke 38]

And finally, are we really arguing about a movie as if it were anything but pure fiction?

Isn't that the fun of it, though.And I'm right about the knowing things outside of the matrix. It could be the case that Neo wouldn't actually be that great at kung fu because he learned it with his "matrix" body and wouldn't necessarily be able to convert his muscle knowledge of his matrix body to his muscle knowledge of his real body. But he certainty would understand the theory of kung fu, and he would know any rote knowledge that was downloaded into his brain when connected either to the matrix or to the computer in the ship.If not, he could never learn anything in the matrix. All his memories would instantly vanish when he became unplugged. If he can create memories through the matrix, then he can certainly retain the downloaded information in his brain.(Okay, so you could make the argument that the parts of the brain that create memories and that store information are quite separate, but I don't see why the mechanism that interfaces between the brain and the computer would necessarily distinguish between the two nor do I see how one could learn something in the matrix, have the knowledge in your brain, and then unlearn it when you become unplugged.).To further argue my point, imagine that Trinity downloads a program while in the matrix telling her how to fly a helicopter. She does whatever it is she wants to do and then exits the matrix. If she again reenters the matrix, does she remember how to fly the helicopter? If so, then the knowledge must have been stored in her brain while she was outside the matrix. And I again don't see any reason why she'd only be able to access that information while connected to the matrix.

[aucu 3]

The shear availability of information is astounding,No everyone is not taking advantage of of what is available but in the past not many were able to make the effort to travel far to study and even if they could would there be room.Now anyone can get started on what was in the past only available to the few. Granted practice is needed as well as theory but that's nothing new. I used to be amazed at how fast I could learn about very specific things on the net but now it's just an every day experience.I remember going to major libraries to find an obscure text on things, "mineral fluorescence" comes to mind because it is somthing that I spent a lot of time looking into back in the pre-web days just to get started I had to scout out several places and it took up a lot of time and now you can get almost every thing you need to know in an instant.The web will take learning far, it's a great way to fill in a lot of holes but it is not quite ready to give you a full education yet.

[chrozzo 19]