72 replies to this topic

[85suited]

http://msunderestimated.com/2008/10/11/max...eal-time-video/

Maher: When John McCain was at the Saddleback Ranch, I mean Church…I always call it a ranch; and he was asked a question, they both were, by Rick Warren, you know, “what do you do about evil?” and he said DEFEAT IT!

Moore: That’s a good answer!

Maher: Right. But it might take him two terms. And Obama said…he had a very different answer. He said “Be humble about it.” Because he was trying to say, you know, ‘evil, it’s not something you can really defeat because there’s no devils out there.’ Sorry.

{audience laughter}

Maher: The devil is within us, you know. And when I see what went on on Wall Street the last eight years, that’s evil to me. That’s the evil within us.

{raucous applause}

Maher: You don’t see that?

Moore: I do!

Maher: What about…I mean, don’t you think they need regulation? People say ‘well, they don’t need regulation because, you know what, it was just because they got greedy!’ Of course, they went to work on Wall Street! Who goes to work on Wall Street except greedy bastards?

Moore: Is there something wrong with wanting to make money?




Maher: No, but you have to regulate it! That’s where the problem is; that there was no regulation.

Moore: Well, let’s talk about regulation. One of the insti…the biggest institutions that’s failed this year was Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. This is an institution that your friends, the democrats… in fact you, Congresswoman, did not want to regulate…

Waters: …I believed…I believed…

Moore: …you said it wasn’t broke, you said it wasn’t broke, you said it wasn’t broke five years ago at a Congressional hearing, and you took $15,000 of campaign contributions from Fannie and Freddie.

Waters: …no I didn’t.

Moore: Yeah, you did, it’s in the Senate (inaudible)

Waters: No it’s not.

{inaudible cross-talk}

Moore: You took money from the PAC.

Waters: Wait just a minute, just a minute…

Moore: … and so did Barney Frank, and so did Chris Dodd.

Waters: That is a lie and I challenge you.

Moore: Okay.

Waters: …to find $15,000 that I took from Fannie PAC…

Moore: Okay, allright, I will…

Maher: And also, wait a second…Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are private.

Moore: That’s the problem, they’re not! They had private profits but they were socialized institutions, so you had the worst of both worlds.

Maher: What are we doing now? You see, we didn’t have regulations…

Waters: We own Fannie and Freddie now, and we will continue with the mission. It was not that the mission was bad; the fact of the matter is they started to buy up these bad mortgages…

Moore: …the sub-prime mortgages

Waters: …just like all of their competitors did.

Maher: Look, I mean, they didn’t want regu….

Moore: You said they didn’t need to be regulated.

{inaudible cross-talk}

Gould: See, this is a terrible thing to say, ‘it’s the Democrats fault.’ For one thing, you forgot…

Moore: … I said Republicans did it, too.

Gould: Oh, thank you very much. I’m sorry.

Moore: They all took money from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

Waters: I voted for regulation for Fannie and Freddie

{inaudible cross-talk}

Waters: I voted for the regulation that was championed by Barney Frank. We…we put together…

Moore: You said it wasn’t broke so it doesn’t need to be fixed.

[85suited]

http://www.cagw.org/upload/FannieandFreddie.pdf

Citizens against goverment waste warned of this in 2000~!

[85suited]

Were there any attempts by Congress to prevent this crisis prior to now? The answer is yes. While legislation did get passed out of the House, a bill was not passed out of the Senate.

In 2003 and 2005, S. 1508 and S. 190, respectively, were introduced in the Senate by Sen. Chuck Hagel (R-Neb.) Co-sponsors on the bill were Sens. Elizabeth Dole (R-N.C), John McCain (R-Ariz.), Trent Lott (R-Miss.) and John Sununu (R-N.H.) While both bills were reported favorably out of the Senate Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs, it was done so by a strictly party-line vote. According to a staff person I spoke to, all the Republicans voted for the bill, all of the Democrats voted against it. Unfortunately, due to Senate rules and the lack of strong bi-partisan support in order to provide the 60 votes to overcome any attempted filibuster, the bill did not move forward. Who were sitting on these committees in 2003 and 2005? Their names are below:



In 2003:

Richard Shelby, (R-Ala.) CHAIRMAN
Paul Sarbanes, (D – Md.); RANKING

Robert Bennett, (R-Utah)
Christopher Dodd (D-Conn.)

Wayne Allard, (R-Colo.)
Tim Johnson (D-S.D.)

Michael Enzi, (R-Wyom.)
Jack Reed (D-R.I.)

Chuck Hagel (R-Neb.)
Charles Schumer (D- N.Y.)

Rick Santorum (R- Penn.)
Evan Bayh (D- Ind.)

Jim Bunning (R-Ky.)
Zell Miller (D-Ga.)

Mike Crapo (R-Idaho)
Thomas Carper (D-Del.)

John Sununu (R-N.H.)
Debbie Stabenow (D- Mich.)

Elizabeth Dole (R-N.C)
Jon Corzine (D-N.J.)

Lincoln Chafee (R- R.I.)





In 2005:

Richard Shelby, (R-Ala.) CHAIRMAN
Paul Sarbanes, (D – Md.); RANKING

Robert Bennett, (R-Utah)
Christopher Dodd (D-Conn.)

Wayne Allard, (R-Colo.)
Tim Johnson (D-S.D.)

Michael Enzi, (R-Wyom.)
Jack Reed (D-R.I.)

Chuck Hagel (R-Neb.)
Charles Schumer (D- N.Y.)

Rick Santorum (R- Penn.)
Evan Bayh (D- Ind.)

Jim Bunning (R-Ky.)
Zell Miller (D-Ga.)

Mike Crapo (R-Idaho)
Thomas Carper (D-Del.)

John Sununu (R-N.H.)
Debbie Stabenow (D- Mich.)

Elizabeth Dole (R-N.C)
Jon Corzine (D-N.J.)

Mel Martinez (R- Fla.)





In 2005, the House was able to pass legislation, H.R. 1461 but because there was no forward movement in the Senate, nothing was done. (As you know, a bill has to pass both the House and Senate before it is sent to the president to be signed into law.) It is worth to see who voted for and against the bill in the House, which can be found here. http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2005/roll547.xml

So now, we are in the “investigative” stage. Unfortunately, the ones doing the investigations are the ones that opposed any reforms in the first place. The proverbial “fox guarding the henhouse.”

[Nimue1995]

How many times do you plan to answer your own topic?

[nutzbuster]

This is awesome.


Time to shed some TRUTH on the matter and name names. Get this shit out there.


Democrats started the mess...Carter blew it up...Clinton further fanned the flames when he left office and told them to fill up half of their books with what were essentially bad loans.

Many shitty/greedy/stupid Republicans went along for the ride either for financial gain or because they were too afraid of being labeled racists.

Bottom line...they all suck flaming sphincter! OFF WITH ALL THEIR HEADS!



ACORN is one of the most corrupt organizations out there. They are as bad as Jesse Jackson shakedown/threat and gain corporation.

ACORN could well hurt Obama, who btw is very close to these clowns. Oops. He has been quoted recently as not only having been involved, supporting their efforts, but actually defended this organization in a lawsuit! I'm sure he had no idea about the degree of voter fraud going on, but still...yet another link to less than desirable folks. Yikes.


McCain. Looking more and more spineless everyday. The guy is pissing me off. How can I get behind a hockey team that won;t fight? That doesn;t have any fire and passion???? He is probably going to lose. He is being thrown to the wolves. Most of the Conservative high profile Republicans seem to have left his side.

Where is Romney? Huckabee? Giuliani?


So it very well could be over....it will be close, but,,,whatever. What the Republicans need to look hard at now it to make sure as much as possible that we they get a majority in Congress to balance what will otherwise be an absolute power corruption machine.

Plus the Democrats will need someone to point the finger at when some of their proposals fail.


RANT RANT RANT!!!!


I'm getting so sick of this shit.



I LOVE YOU ALLLLL


GOD BLESS AMERICAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




I'm off to play poker all day now...

[85suited]

How many times do you plan to answer your own topic?

often since you have nothing valuable to contribute to the topic...

Or is this just a verdict on the failed economic policy of GWB's 8 years

[Nimue1995]

This is awesome.


Time to shed some TRUTH on the matter and name names. Get this shit out there.


Democrats started the mess...Carter blew it up...Clinton further fanned the flames when he left office and told them to fill up half of their books with what were essentially bad loans.

Many shitty/greedy/stupid Republicans went along for the ride either for financial gain or because they were too afraid of being labeled racists.

Bottom line...they all suck flaming sphincter! OFF WITH ALL THEIR HEADS!



ACORN is one of the most corrupt organizations out there. They are as bad as Jesse Jackson shakedown/threat and gain corporation.

ACORN could well hurt Obama, who btw is very close to these clowns. Oops. He has been quoted recently as not only having been involved, supporting their efforts, but actually defended this organization in a lawsuit! I'm sure he had no idea about the degree of voter fraud going on, but still...yet another link to less than desirable folks. Yikes.


McCain. Looking more and more spineless everyday. The guy is pissing me off. How can I get behind a hockey team that won;t fight? That doesn;t have any fire and passion???? He is probably going to lose. He is being thrown to the wolves. Most of the Conservative high profile Republicans seem to have left his side.

Where is Romney? Huckabee? Giuliani?


So it very well could be over....it will be close, but,,,whatever. What the Republicans need to look hard at now it to make sure as much as possible that we they get a majority in Congress to balance what will otherwise be an absolute power corruption machine.

Plus the Democrats will need someone to point the finger at when some of their proposals fail.


RANT RANT RANT!!!!


I'm getting so sick of this shit.



I LOVE YOU ALLLLL


GOD BLESS AMERICAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




I'm off to play poker all day now...

Somehow I'm reminded of the 1948 election. Dewey wins! (not! hahaha)

[85suited]

A Timeline Of Democrats Destroying The Economy

You've seen the video of them in action. You've seen the disaster than comes from their putting partisanship over leadership. Now The White House issues this timeline detailing the numerous Republican attempts to reform Fanne Mae and Freddie Mac and prevent the current economic crisis. Democrats in Congress ignored all the warnings and blocked any action that would reduce "affordable housing" i.e. subprime mortgages, which are the root cause of all this mess.

2001

April: The Administration's FY02 budget declares that the size of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac is "a potential problem," because "financial trouble of a large GSE could cause strong repercussions in financial markets, affecting Federally insured entities and economic activity."

2002

May: The President calls for the disclosure and corporate governance principles contained in his 10-point plan for corporate responsibility to apply to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. (OMB Prompt Letter to OFHEO, 5/29/02)

2003

January: Freddie Mac announces it has to restate financial results for the previous three years.

February: The Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight (OFHEO) releases a report explaining that "although investors perceive an implicit Federal guarantee of [GSE] obligations," "the government has provided no explicit legal backing for them." As a consequence, unexpected problems at a GSE could immediately spread into financial sectors beyond the housing market. ("Systemic Risk: Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and the Role of OFHEO," OFHEO Report, 2/4/03)

September: Fannie Mae discloses SEC investigation and acknowledges OFHEO's review found earnings manipulations.

September: Treasury Secretary John Snow testifies before the House Financial Services Committee to recommend that Congress enact "legislation to create a new Federal agency to regulate and supervise the financial activities of our housing-related government sponsored enterprises" and set prudent and appropriate minimum capital adequacy requirements.

October: Fannie Mae discloses $1.2 billion accounting error.

November: Council of the Economic Advisers (CEA) Chairman Greg Mankiw explains that any "legislation to reform GSE regulation should empower the new regulator with sufficient strength and credibility to reduce systemic risk." To reduce the potential for systemic instability, the regulator would have "broad authority to set both risk-based and minimum capital standards" and "receivership powers necessary to wind down the affairs of a troubled GSE." (N. Gregory Mankiw, Remarks At The Conference Of State Bank Supervisors State Banking Summit And Leadership, 11/6/03)

2004

February: The President's FY05 Budget again highlights the risk posed by the explosive growth of the GSEs and their low levels of required capital, and called for creation of a new, world-class regulator: "The Administration has determined that the safety and soundness regulators of the housing GSEs lack sufficient power and stature to meet their responsibilities, and therefore…should be replaced with a new strengthened regulator." (2005 Budget Analytic Perspectives, pg. 83)

February: CEA Chairman Mankiw cautions Congress to "not take [the financial market's] strength for granted." Again, the call from the Administration was to reduce this risk by "ensuring that the housing GSEs are overseen by an effective regulator." (N. Gregory Mankiw, Op-Ed, "Keeping Fannie And Freddie's House In Order," Financial Times, 2/24/04)

June: Deputy Secretary of Treasury Samuel Bodman spotlights the risk posed by the GSEs and called for reform, saying "We do not have a world-class system of supervision of the housing government sponsored enterprises (GSEs), even though the importance of the housing financial system that the GSEs serve demands the best in supervision to ensure the long-term vitality of that system. Therefore, the Administration has called for a new, first class, regulatory supervisor for the three housing GSEs: Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and the Federal Home Loan Banking System." (Samuel Bodman, House Financial Services Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations Testimony, 6/16/04)

2005

April: Treasury Secretary John Snow repeats his call for GSE reform, saying "Events that have transpired since I testified before this Committee in 2003 reinforce concerns over the systemic risks posed by the GSEs and further highlight the need for real GSE reform to ensure that our housing finance system remains a strong and vibrant source of funding for expanding homeownership opportunities in America… Half-measures will only exacerbate the risks to our financial system." (Secretary John W. Snow, "Testimony Before The U.S. House Financial Services Committee," 4/13/05)

2007

July: Two Bear Stearns hedge funds invested in mortgage securities collapse.

August: President Bush emphatically calls on Congress to pass a reform package for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, saying "first things first when it comes to those two institutions. Congress needs to get them reformed, get them streamlined, get them focused, and then I will consider other options." (President George W. Bush, Press Conference, The White House, 8/9/07)

September: RealtyTrac announces foreclosure filings up 243,000 in August – up 115 percent from the year before.

September: Single-family existing home sales decreases 7.5 percent from the previous month – the lowest level in nine years. Median sale price of existing homes fell six percent from the year before.

December: President Bush again warns Congress of the need to pass legislation reforming GSEs, saying "These institutions provide liquidity in the mortgage market that benefits millions of homeowners, and it is vital they operate safely and operate soundly. So I've called on Congress to pass legislation that strengthens independent regulation of the GSEs – and ensures they focus on their important housing mission. The GSE reform bill passed by the House earlier this year is a good start. But the Senate has not acted. And the United States Senate needs to pass this legislation soon." (President George W. Bush, Discusses Housing, The White House, 12/6/07)

2008

January: Bank of America announces it will buy Countrywide.

January: Citigroup announces mortgage portfolio lost $18.1 billion in value.

February: Assistant Secretary David Nason reiterates the urgency of reforms, says "A new regulatory structure for the housing GSEs is essential if these entities are to continue to perform their public mission successfully." (David Nason, Testimony On Reforming GSE Regulation, Senate Committee On Banking, Housing And Urban Affairs, 2/7/08)

March: Bear Stearns announces it will sell itself to JPMorgan Chase.

March: President Bush calls on Congress to take action and "move forward with reforms on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. They need to continue to modernize the FHA, as well as allow State housing agencies to issue tax-free bonds to homeowners to refinance their mortgages." (President George W. Bush, Remarks To The Economic Club Of New York, New York, NY, 3/14/08)

April: President Bush urges Congress to pass the much needed legislation and "modernize Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. [There are] constructive things Congress can do that will encourage the housing market to correct quickly by … helping people stay in their homes." (President George W. Bush, Meeting With Cabinet, the White House, 4/14/08)

May: President Bush issues several pleas to Congress to pass legislation reforming Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac before the situation deteriorates further.

"Americans are concerned about making their mortgage payments and keeping their homes. Yet Congress has failed to pass legislation I have repeatedly requested to modernize the Federal Housing Administration that will help more families stay in their homes, reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to ensure they focus on their housing mission, and allow State housing agencies to issue tax-free bonds to refinance sub-prime loans." (President George W. Bush, Radio Address, 5/3/08)

"[T]he government ought to be helping creditworthy people stay in their homes. And one way we can do that – and Congress is making progress on this – is the reform of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. That reform will come with a strong, independent regulator." (President George W. Bush, Meeting With The Secretary Of The Treasury, the White House, 5/19/08)

"Congress needs to pass legislation to modernize the Federal Housing Administration, reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to ensure they focus on their housing mission, and allow State housing agencies to issue tax-free bonds to refinance subprime loans." (President George W. Bush, Radio Address, 5/31/08)

June: As foreclosure rates continued to rise in the first quarter, the President once again asks Congress to take the necessary measures to address this challenge, saying "we need to pass legislation to reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac." (President George W. Bush, Remarks At Swearing In Ceremony For Secretary Of Housing And Urban Development, Washington, D.C., 6/6/08)

July: Congress heeds the President's call for action and passes reform of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac as it becomes clear that the institutions are failing.

While this timeline is instructive in it's own right there is one key fact I'd like to add and it's important.

Only one political party had the foresight to see the looming crisis, only one political party attempted to stop it, and only one political party deserves your support this fall (unless of course you work at one of these failed institutions and would like to continue ripping off the taxpayers for million dollar bonuses)...

[Nimue1995]

Yep no matter what it's the Democrats fault. And of course those brave Republican's were back there going into battle against those evil Democrats plans. None of them ever took a dime from any of those Wall Street firms, they were all heros battling the Democratic dragon.
And no matter what it's NOT the Republicans fault!

[fatman]

Yep no matter what it's the Democrats fault. And of course those brave Republican's were back there going into battle against those evil Democrats plans. None of them ever took a dime from any of those Wall Street firms, they were all heros battling the Democratic dragon.
And no matter what it's NOT the Republicans fault!

Glad you are finally beginning to see the light.

[hblask]

Yep no matter what it's the Democrats fault. And of course those brave Republican's were back there going into battle against those evil Democrats plans. None of them ever took a dime from any of those Wall Street firms, they were all heros battling the Democratic dragon.

And no matter what it's NOT the Republicans fault!

You know I'm no fan or Republicans and am happy to bash them whenever I can, but the more I read about this, the more it appears that the Republicans tried to fix this and got prevented from doing so by the Democrats. So on this issue, the R's win easily. I'd assign the blame 90% Democrats, 10% Republicans.

What's annoying is that Obama and his "There Is No Crisis" cronies are getting a political boost from this -- more evidence that we need stricter requirements on who should be allowed to vote.

[Loismustdie]

You know I'm no fan or Republicans and am happy to bash them whenever I can, but the more I read about this, the more it appears that the Republicans tried to fix this and got prevented from doing so by the Democrats. So on this issue, the R's win easily. I'd assign the blame 90% Democrats, 10% Republicans.

What's annoying is that Obama and his "There Is No Crisis" cronies are getting a political boost from this -- more evidence that we need stricter requirements on who should be allowed to vote.

What's you next answer to this, Nimue? Facts don't matter because I feel this way? Facts are facts- Republicans tried, Dems fought the trying, Republicans warned numerous times with no results, little to no Dem support. I mean, what could your argument possibly be?

[Nimue1995]

What's you next answer to this, Nimue? Facts don't matter because I feel this way? Facts are facts- Republicans tried, Dems fought the trying, Republicans warned numerous times with no results, little to no Dem support. I mean, what could your argument possibly be?

Seems to me that the Republicans had 6 years in which they could pretty much do whatever they wanted or at least do whatever Bush wanted. And somehow the subject of regulating the sub-prime mortgage business, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and CDS never came up. So while I agree that there's plenty of blame to go around, I don't agree that the Republicans were out there trying to stop it because they had every opportunity during those 6 years to do so.

[akoff]

What's you next answer to this, Nimue? Facts don't matter because I feel this way? Facts are facts- Republicans tried, Dems fought the trying, Republicans warned numerous times with no results, little to no Dem support. I mean, what could your argument possibly be?

Does this really suprise anyone? if so you should pull your head out of the sand.

[JustDoIt]

Seems to me that the Republicans had 6 years in which they could pretty much do whatever they wanted or at least do whatever Bush wanted. And somehow the subject of regulating the sub-prime mortgage business, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and CDS never came up. So while I agree that there's plenty of blame to go around, I don't agree that the Republicans were out there trying to stop it because they had every opportunity during those 6 years to do so.

If you read really close the House passed bills and was blocked in Senate. In the Senate you need 60 votes to get anything done, which is really stupid. If they want to Filibuster then they should have to really do it. The 60 vote thing is very wrong.

[85suited]

Seems to me that the Republicans had 6 years in which they could pretty much do whatever they wanted or at least do whatever Bush wanted. And somehow the subject of regulating the sub-prime mortgage business, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and CDS never came up. So while I agree that there's plenty of blame to go around, I don't agree that the Republicans were out there trying to stop it because they had every opportunity during those 6 years to do so.

again reminding everyone you don't have a clue

[hblask]

In the Senate you need 60 votes to get anything done, which is really stupid.

I agree, it should be 80.

[LongLiveYorke]

If you read really close the House passed bills and was blocked in Senate. In the Senate you need 60 votes to get anything done, which is really stupid. If they want to Filibuster then they should have to really do it. The 60 vote thing is very wrong.

Did Democrats filibuster this issue?

I think they're both quite responsible. If any of them really had a clue, passing something to resolve the impending crisis should have been a no brainer.

Apparently the only people who actually know what they're doing in all of this are the Europeans.

[JustDoIt]

I agree, it should be 80.

[copernicus]

Did Democrats filibuster this issue?

I think they're both quite responsible. If any of them really had a clue, passing something to resolve the impending crisis should have been a no brainer.

Apparently the only people who actually know what they're doing in all of this are the Europeans.

Really? Then why is the European banking system in much worse shape than ours?