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Gay Marriage


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#1 Ron_Mexico

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Posted 04 October 2008 - 08:02 PM

This is just an issue that puzzles me. This isn't necessarily a Dem or Repub thing because as we found out in the VP debate, both are against it.Basically, if you're against it, why? How does it affect you if two dudes or two gals you've never met get married? Does it cost you money? Do they get benefits you don't? What's the deal? Now, I'd rather not read that it's morally wrong, or not a traditional marriage, because that's simply applying your belief system to other people, which I think is wrong, and a lot of what's wrong with this country.So basically, how are you actually affected by two gay people being dumb enough to want to get married? How does it hurt you?
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#2 CaneBrain

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Posted 04 October 2008 - 08:08 PM

It's just nonsense. The "sanctity of marriage". What a crock. When the divorce rate hit 50%, marriage lost its sanctity license.
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#3 neretva

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Posted 04 October 2008 - 08:21 PM

View PostCaneBrain, on Saturday, October 4th, 2008, 5:08 PM, said:

It's just nonsense. The "sanctity of marriage". What a crock. When the divorce rate hit 50%, marriage lost its sanctity license.
The divorce rate is 50%. If you add in marriages with cheating spouses (which effectively negates the marriage and renders it a sham), the number probably rises to 80%.Marriages fail in this country because of one main reason: deficient character. Failed people result in failed marriages.
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#4 copernicus

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Posted 04 October 2008 - 08:27 PM

View PostRon_Mexico, on Saturday, October 4th, 2008, 9:02 PM, said:

This is just an issue that puzzles me. This isn't necessarily a Dem or Repub thing because as we found out in the VP debate, both are against it.Basically, if you're against it, why? How does it affect you if two dudes or two gals you've never met get married? Does it cost you money? Do they get benefits you don't? What's the deal? Now, I'd rather not read that it's morally wrong, or not a traditional marriage, because that's simply applying your belief system to other people, which I think is wrong, and a lot of what's wrong with this country.So basically, how are you actually affected by two gay people being dumb enough to want to get married? How does it hurt you?
Which is why, if anything, it should be a state issue, which is McCains position. Personally I dont think gay couples should be given adoptive children, and the orphanage I work with doesnt let same sex couple adopt, but that is a minor issue.
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#5 SuitedAces21

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Posted 04 October 2008 - 08:30 PM

View Postcopernicus, on Sunday, October 5th, 2008, 12:27 AM, said:

Personally I dont think gay couples should be given adoptive children,
why?
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#6 CaneBrain

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Posted 04 October 2008 - 08:35 PM

View Postcopernicus, on Saturday, October 4th, 2008, 9:27 PM, said:

Which is why, if anything, it should be a state issue, which is McCains position. Personally I dont think gay couples should be given adoptive children, and the orphanage I work with doesnt let same sex couple adopt, but that is a minor issue.
I am sure to you it is a minor issue. To me, blatant discrimination is not a minor issue (especially when it involves denying perfectly good parents from adopting kids and getting them out of the black hole that is DCF.....do some research on how bad the foster care system is in most states and then come tell me how limiting the number of real homes available to orphans is a minor issue)And, since I live in FL (a state that does not allow homosexuals to adopt and has perhaps the shittiest of all foster care agencies) and my wife works with DCF routinely I have some pretty good insight on this issue.
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#7 Ron_Mexico

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Posted 04 October 2008 - 08:38 PM

View Postcopernicus, on Sunday, October 5th, 2008, 12:27 AM, said:

Which is why, if anything, it should be a state issue, which is McCains position. Personally I dont think gay couples should be given adoptive children, and the orphanage I work with doesnt let same sex couple adopt, but that is a minor issue.
As Suited asked, why not? Do you think homo is contagious? So, you'd rather have a kid sit in an orphanage until he/she turns 18 rather than have that child be placed in home with a gay couple, where it would undoubtedly be loved and nurtured and educated well? How come? I do give you enough credit to know the difference between being a gay man and a pedophile, so that can't be your reasoning. And please, don't give me the excuse of a "regular" couple being denied the chance to adopt because the gays scooped up all the kids first. I haven't done any research, but I'm thinking that there are tons of unwanted kids in this world. Why shouldn't a stable couple be allowed to adopt just because they take a different route in the bedroom, and for all the times I've tried a girl to let me give her anal, it's not that different a route.But I don't want this thread to devolve into adoption and abortion.If regular couple marrying is a state issue, then I'm fine with gay marriage being a state issue. If I marry gay in California, will my gay marriage be recognized if I move to FL or NY? Will I still be able to file my taxes jointly, with my hunky spouse and have hospital visitation, etc?
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#8 neretva

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Posted 04 October 2008 - 08:40 PM

View PostCaneBrain, on Saturday, October 4th, 2008, 5:35 PM, said:

I am sure to you it is a minor issue. To me, blatant discrimination is not a minor issue (especially when it involves denying perfectly good parents from adopting kids and getting them out of the black hole that is DCF.....do some research on how bad the foster care system is in most states and then come tell me how limiting the number of real homes available to orphans is a minor issue)And, since I live in FL (a state that does not allow homosexuals to adopt and has perhaps the shittiest of all foster care agencies) and my wife works with DCF routinely I have some pretty good insight on this issue.
People overidentify gays with pedophiles, but the statistics are overwhelming: the vast majority of pedophiles are straight dudes hitting on little girls. Disgusting, but true.
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#9 copernicus

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Posted 04 October 2008 - 08:44 PM

It has nothing to do with "contagion" or "pedophiles". I think every child needs a parent of both genders for healthy psycholgical development.
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#10 neretva

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Posted 04 October 2008 - 08:44 PM

View PostRon_Mexico, on Saturday, October 4th, 2008, 5:38 PM, said:

and for all the times I've tried a girl to let me give her anal, it's not that different a route.
I'll ask, because no one else will. What has your success rate been?
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#11 SuitedAces21

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Posted 04 October 2008 - 08:46 PM

View Postcopernicus, on Sunday, October 5th, 2008, 12:44 AM, said:

It has nothing to do with "contagion" or "pedophiles". I think every child needs a parent of both genders for healthy psycholgical development.
Absolutely ridiculous.
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#12 strategy

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Posted 04 October 2008 - 08:47 PM

View Postcopernicus, on Saturday, October 4th, 2008, 11:44 PM, said:

It has nothing to do with "contagion" or "pedophiles". I think every child needs a parent of both genders for healthy psycholgical development.
is it better or worse than being shuffled around, never finding a permanent home at all?shame there's not much data, but I've heard plenty of promising anecdotal evidence about adoptees in gay families.
QUOTE (ShakeZuma @ Wednesday, November 2nd, 2011, 4:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
seriously though, with that grammar it's really like, I mean it doesn't bother me as much that she gets beat, you know?


#13 CaneBrain

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Posted 04 October 2008 - 08:48 PM

View Postcopernicus, on Saturday, October 4th, 2008, 9:44 PM, said:

It has nothing to do with "contagion" or "pedophiles". I think every child needs a parent of both genders for healthy psycholgical development.
please, do some research on the state of DCF systems in this country and then come back and tell me you are not willing to risk the potential of a little less healthy psychological development for the much higher likelihood that they get a loving and stable home and they are not subjected to the psychological abuse of being in the DCF system.I honestly think you will be swayed.
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#14 copernicus

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Posted 04 October 2008 - 08:48 PM

View PostSuitedAces21, on Saturday, October 4th, 2008, 9:46 PM, said:

Absolutely ridiculous.
Youre entitled to your opinion. As a parent and someone involved with hundreds of adopted children a year, Im entitled to mine.
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#15 neretva

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Posted 04 October 2008 - 08:52 PM

View Postcopernicus, on Saturday, October 4th, 2008, 5:44 PM, said:

It has nothing to do with "contagion" or "pedophiles". I think every child needs a parent of both genders for healthy psycholgical development.
I agree with this. The world is 50% men and 50% women. To deal with the world in a mentally healthy fashion, it is best if a child is raised by a man and a woman. It's just logical. Both viewpoints and psychologies are vital to forming a complete person.That's not to say 2 women or 2 men CANNOT raise a child successfully, but if a choice can be made, you must defer to a male-female scenario.I think gay people are behaving in an incredibly selfish manner in wanting to raise an infant. It is treating kids like a car or a house. I want it "just because", and "just because" I want it, I should be allowed to have it. You have to think of the child's well being above all else, and put your own selfish desires under wraps. It's too important a responsibility to be undertaken for personal aggrandizement.
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#16 CaneBrain

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Posted 04 October 2008 - 08:56 PM

View Postneretva, on Saturday, October 4th, 2008, 9:52 PM, said:

You have to think of the child's well being above all else, and put your own selfish desires under wraps. It's too important a responsibility to be undertaken for personal aggrandizement.
child is better off:1) in DCF2) with gay parentssetting aside, the religious aspects or the political aspects or the moral aspects....lets look at the practical aspects.Anyone, with any sense, is picking option 2 in the above scenario any time. DCF sucks. So, if you are really wanting to put "the child's well being above all else" you should be allowing gay adoption. If there were enough straight parents out there to adopt all the children, then the answer might change (from a practical point of view). But that is not the case.
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#17 strategy

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Posted 04 October 2008 - 08:59 PM

View PostCaneBrain, on Saturday, October 4th, 2008, 11:56 PM, said:

If there were enough straight parents out there to adopt all the children, then the answer might change (from a practical point of view). But that is not the case.
really? someone on this forum was discussing his and his wife's struggles to adopt a child, and it seemed like his options were basically limited to looking abroad. what's the deal?
QUOTE (ShakeZuma @ Wednesday, November 2nd, 2011, 4:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
seriously though, with that grammar it's really like, I mean it doesn't bother me as much that she gets beat, you know?


#18 SuitedAces21

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Posted 04 October 2008 - 09:00 PM

View Postneretva, on Sunday, October 5th, 2008, 12:52 AM, said:

I think gay people are behaving in an incredibly selfish manner in wanting to raise an infant. It is treating kids like a car or a house. I want it "just because", and "just because" I want it, I should be allowed to have it. You have to think of the child's well being above all else, and put your own selfish desires under wraps. It's too important a responsibility to be undertaken for personal aggrandizement.
You cannot lump all homosexual couples seeking to adopt into this category. Maybe there are gay couples who adopt for those reasons, but I think the numbers are low. Very low. People, hetero and homo, do not adopt a child "just because". Adoption is a very serious process. One that is not entered into lightly. I think many gay couples adopt because they want to help better a childs life. And they should be allowed too. Leaving a child in foster care, or whatever its called in that state, becuase you think a child needs both a male and female parent is beyond ridiculous. Two males, who truly love a child, are more than qualified to raise that child. The love and attention recieved will more than make up for not having a female parent.
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#19 CaneBrain

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Posted 04 October 2008 - 09:04 PM

View Poststrategy, on Saturday, October 4th, 2008, 9:59 PM, said:

really? someone on this forum was discussing his and his wife's struggles to adopt a child, and it seemed like his options were basically limited to looking abroad. what's the deal?
there might be limited options for adopting the child they want in their area. I know that Florida's DCF is overrun. Bottom line, it might be hard in some areas to find a child to adopt who is the prospective parents preferred race, in their preferred age range, etc. (Everyone wants a baby....no one wants the 7 year old orphan....or so I have heard) However, the gay people I know dont want to be choosy they just want the right to have a child so they can pass their love and knowledge onto to someone before they pass into the void.
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#20 copernicus

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Posted 04 October 2008 - 09:07 PM

View PostCaneBrain, on Saturday, October 4th, 2008, 9:56 PM, said:

child is better off:1) in DCF2) with gay parentssetting aside, the religious aspects or the political aspects or the moral aspects....lets look at the practical aspects.Anyone, with any sense, is picking option 2 in the above scenario any time. DCF sucks. So, if you are really wanting to put "the child's well being above all else" you should be allowing gay adoption. If there were enough straight parents out there to adopt all the children, then the answer might change (from a practical point of view). But that is not the case.
If those are the only choices I agree...but they rarely if ever are. There are plenty of qualified two gender families that want to adopt in the US and can't. Thats why they have to turn to overseas agencies, like the one Im affiliated with, FANA. We tried for two years and couldnt find an agency, and wound up adopting my son in Colombia.
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