Aq - Tp On Paired Flop

[psujohn 0]

Only like 25 hands with villain but he seems like an aggro monkey. He's something like 65/40/10 over maybe 25 hands.Is the turn check ok? What's are river play?Full Tilt Poker $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em - 6 playersThe Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History ConverterBB: $98.70UTG: $110.30MP: $100.00CO: $156.75BTN: $108.95Hero (SB): $102.00Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is SB with Q A 2 folds, CO raises to $3.50, 1 fold, Hero raises to $11.50, 1 fold, CO calls $8Flop: ($24.00) Q J J (2 players)Hero bets $17, CO calls $17Turn: ($58.00) 4 (2 players)Hero checks, CO checksRiver: ($58.00) T (2 players)Hero checks, CO bets $44, Hero ??

[No_Neck 0]

I think you have to call here, I mean you know he is aggro, you checked twice, it is hard to think he would check behind with a J on such a draw heavy board. Unless he flopped the boat I would expect to be good here.

[Sick Boy 0]

Call imo. Unlucky if you're beat but you cant lay down here to a LAG player. So sick.

[ship 0]

blah call

[pokerinc 0]

so you guys are putting him on k10?

[No_Neck 0]

so you guys are putting him on k10?

I put him on a range of hands, not just one hand. I mean what hands could he be doing this with that checks the turn?

[Giggidy 0]

Why check the turn against someone with such a massive range of hands? There's draws out there and he could be holding pretty much anything

[CobaltBlue 662]

Pre-flop looks good from a stack/opponent perspective. After we get that flop, we're pretty much never folding. Assuming that we're c/r all-in on the turn, I'm fine with it. Once we're to the river, the c/c is fine.

[CobaltBlue 662]

Why check the turn against someone with such a massive range of hands? There's draws out there and he could be holding pretty much anything

We're roughly 70% against the range that I'd be willing to give him. If he's really aggro, he'll likely charge himself to draw. If he's way behind, we're not afraid of a free card. If he's way ahead, we're also fine with a free card. Betting the turn here is much better against a calling station that's not going to bluff. Against someone that's aggro or will potentially bluff, a check can be better.

[Snake Plissken 0]

I hate that river cause AcKc makes so much sense. But call it. I think your check is fine

[SGFULTON83 0]

I don't like the turn or the river check, because you give control in the hand to the villian. As played you have to call the river I think and hope you didn't give him the hand for free. There are alot of possibilities for what the villian can be holding which is why we want to maintain control of the betting at all times, so we don't have to make these tough decisions on the river.

[psujohn 0]

Yeah I guess the question is mostly on the turn check. I can't say that I was checking the turn to crai more for wa/wb purposes though against this villain it'd be hard to fold even if he bets turn and river. Given that is bet/fold better on the turn?I probably should have stopped the post at the turn action since I think the river virtually plays itself. I'm checking here to induce because this monkey will bet nearly 100% of his range and I'm ahead of most of it.Oh and AcKc makes less sense when you look at what I'm holding.

[Snake Plissken 0]

Yeah I guess the question is mostly on the turn check. I can't say that I was checking the turn to crai more for wa/wb purposes though against this villain it'd be hard to fold even if he bets turn and river. Given that is bet/fold better on the turn?I probably should have stopped the post at the turn action since I think the river virtually plays itself. I'm checking here to induce because this monkey will bet nearly 100% of his range and I'm ahead of most of it.Oh and AcKc makes less sense when you look at what I'm holding.

lol. yeah. my bad. missclick

[babylondonks 5]

IPITS and snapcall the river, if you're behind, so be it. But I think we're underreping our hand, despite the 3bet.

[CobaltBlue 662]

Yeah I guess the question is mostly on the turn check. I can't say that I was checking the turn to crai more for wa/wb purposes though against this villain it'd be hard to fold even if he bets turn and river. Given that is bet/fold better on the turn?

I think this is somewhat a combo situation. On the turn, I believe most of the range is a wa/wb scenario, but there are some draws...which is why I'd prefer to just try to get it in there if possible. We pick up more value by getting him to bluff/semi-bluff/v-bet with a worse hand, but we also charge him. Also, I really don't like bet/fold on the turn. The stacks basically don't support ever getting away from this hand.For what it's worth, my read on villain is TT.

[mtdesmoines 2]

I know everyone has their opinion and you have to pay this river, but the only hand that's callable PF, on the flop, checks the turn and value bets the river is KcKx. But you have to pay it off. Call.

[SCS 0]

If I'm checking the river here, it's with the intention of calling a bet, which is good against this opponent. I like the turn check, especially against an opponent who will shove with a fairly wide range of hands. Against more loose-passive type players, I prefer betting the turn.

[psujohn 0]

Only like 25 hands with villain but he seems like an aggro monkey. He's something like 65/40/10 over maybe 25 hands.

I know everyone has their opinion and you have to pay this river, but the only hand that's callable PF, on the flop, checks the turn and value bets the river is KcKx. But you have to pay it off. Call.

This is pure comedy gold. A 65/40/10 aggro monkey has a range that you can narrow to one hand. A 65/40/10 aggro monkey will only make plays that are rational. Your post is so bad that everyone who read it is a little bit dumber. And no he didn't have KK.

[mtdesmoines 2]

This is pure comedy gold. A 65/40/10 aggro monkey has a range that you can narrow to one hand. A 65/40/10 aggro monkey will only make plays that are rational. Your post is so bad that everyone who read it is a little bit dumber. And no he didn't have KK.

LMFAO ... then why the **** are we checking the turn?

[psujohn 0]

LMFAO ... then why the **** are we checking the turn?

You know every once in a while I think "mtdesmoines isn't really a complete retard" but then you go ahead and prove me wrong.Maybe I can explain it using small words.We check the turn because we're way ahead of much of his range - giving him a free card isn't likely to hurt us.We check the turn because we're way behind a small portion of his range - getting a free card isn't likely to hurt us.We check the turn because if he's way behind it's fairly unlikely that he can call another bet and somewhat likely that he'll bluff at the pot.We check the turn because if he check behind he's more likely to bluff at the river or call our river value bet.If we're sure villain has KK and only KK I personally fold. However that's to narrow a range to assign any villain much less this particular villain.

[mtdesmoines 2]

You know every once in a while I think "mtdesmoines isn't really a complete retard" but then you go ahead and prove me wrong.Maybe I can explain it using small words.We check the turn because we're way ahead of much of his range - giving him a free card isn't likely to hurt us.We check the turn because we're way behind a small portion of his range - getting a free card isn't likely to hurt us.We check the turn because if he's way behind it's fairly unlikely that he can call another bet and somewhat likely that he'll bluff at the pot.We check the turn because if he check behind he's more likely to bluff at the river or call our river value bet.If we're sure villain has KK and only KK I personally fold. However that's to narrow a range to assign any villain much less this particular villain.

Whatever. You have 25 hands on the guy and he's in a lot of pots. His range for this action ... seems like he would have upper middle suited connectors JT 9T QJ ... that sort of thing a lot. If he has stats on you, I would presume your stats are pretty conservative, so PF, he can put you on a pretty narrow range -- and after the flop, solidly on two pair AA KK QQ mayyyyyyybe AJ and AK AQ. We might hold TT, but our hero prob isn't giving action on this flop with TT. I know would be thinking that if I were villain. He played a painted flop, so if he's drawing against you (likely), he's prob drawing very live. I don't think you can give free cards. I'd bet the turn and evaluate. What's even more interesting is the river play -- if we're holding AK (a significant part of our narrow range) and we checked the turn, we got there and he bets into us. Why?

[babylondonks 5]

Whatever. You have 25 hands on the guy and he's in a lot of pots. His range for this action ... seems like he would have upper middle suited connectors JT 9T QJ ... that sort of thing a lot. If he has stats on you, I would presume your stats are pretty conservative, so PF, he can put you on a pretty narrow range -- and after the flop, solidly on two pair AA KK QQ mayyyyyyybe AJ and AK AQ. We might hold TT, but our hero prob isn't giving action on this flop with TT. I know would be thinking that if I were villain. He played a painted flop, so if he's drawing against you (likely), he's prob drawing very live. I don't think you can give free cards. I'd bet the turn and evaluate. What's even more interesting is the river play -- if we're holding AK (a significant part of our narrow range) and we checked the turn, we got there and he bets into us. Why?

You can't put Hero on a range considering all he did was cbet the flop then check the turn and river. That's what I love about the turn check so much. It's another one of those little tricks that gives villain the impression that they can make a move on us when in fact we're all pot commited.'If I were to give villain a hand, I think if we ignore his bet sizing on the river he could have a very badly played J here. It would be the typical slowplay without realizing that the board texture makes it a terrible spot to play it slow. However when he bets that size of the pot I actually think we're ahead a lot. I dunno, but it seems that with a stronger holding villain would just shove or "valuetown". I'm interested to see the results but w/e, I call, as I already stated.

[psujohn 0]

Since I think we pretty much beat the hand to death ...villain had AKo so he spiked his gutshot on the river. I think he played it poorly on nearly every street which isn't a huge surprise from a villain like this. And his numbers did settle down a bit as the session went on but he did prove to be an aggro monkey. I also think he makes the same river bet with KT, KQ, QT, 99, etc.

[trystero 0]

villain had AKo so he spiked his gutshot on the river. I think he played it poorly on nearly every street

Why do you think he played this so badly? Flop is terrible, I agree, but his other streets work. Preflop is fine - if he 4-bets you're pitching worse hands, folding is obviously out of the question, and by calling he's representing weaker than he's actually holding, i.e. he allows you to believe AQ is the best hand so you can stack yourself by flopping an ace. Flop is horrible, because your 3-betting range now crushes his UI AK. Turn is fine, because the only hand you're folding which 3-bets pf and bets the flop is AK - and he's holding that.River is also fine - he has to bet.

[psujohn 0]

Well I don't much like calling AK pre if you're going to play fit or fold. Though obv this villain isn't folding just because he whiffed.The flop call is horrid because he has 7 outs at best. He's potentially drawing dead and he's not even sure what cards are outs. Essentially while he often has 7 outs he can only count the 4 gutshot outs.The turn I'm not loving just because I don't think you can call on the flop with just a gutshot. Rather if he's calling there it has to be with at least the idea of taking it away later - now this isn't really a great turn card to bet but still ...And yeah the river is fine.