18 replies to this topic

[kikijiki]

Hi everyone.Since this is my first post I'll introduce my poker knowledge before the question. I've known the basic rules for like a year - as my friends from studies tought me the game, and about 2 months ago I've wanted to learn more so I've read a few books - Super System 1, HoH 1 and 2. I started playing with 40$ bankroll and untill 1 week ago I had 300$ on my pokerstars account. I play thight-agressive, sometimes bluff, and sometimes can read when other ppl are bluffing. I mostly hang on 5$ SNG and 3$ MTT.During this week I lost whole bankroll and that posed some questions about my play. I don't have poker tracker but I reviewed my hand history and a part from bad beats that I suffered I think my main point where I lost most cash are situations when on the flop I know I have the best hand but later streets screw me.So here is the hypotetical situation:Playing SNG currently 25/50 lvl of blinds. I have AJ from middle position, middle stack, raise 3 BB. Get 2 callers that are not very loose, with stack sizes about my size.Flop comes J94 rainbow, and I have one check in front of me and one player yet to act. Now I know I can have the best hand with the possibility of pockets make trips, or J9 in someone's hand but apart from that I'm good, as I assume that AA, KK or QQ would probably reraise me before the flop (and it is not the situation I loose most money ).Now my aim is to extract most chips of the other players. So I bet about 33-50% (most time 50%) of the pot. Assume those two stay and 8 falls on the turn makeing a possible straight and flush draw. And 98 just made two pair.The question is about the general strategy. I know now I can't bet to aggressive because I'll loose more money to straight, and I don't want that flush draw to make nuts to cheap, so should I bet more on the flop? Am I being to greedy and let others draw to cheap or just being paranoid when lost too much?Thx for the feedback, and sorry if I made any spelling mistakes.

[HighwayStar]

How many players do you have position on?Stacks?All depends on thoseWhat exactly is a middle stack?I probably check that turn a lot but it really depends on the above factors.If you want to get better at MTTs on that sort of BR, play $4.40 180 mans. If you are a capable player you'll make a solid profit and learn more very quickly.

[kikijiki]

Position - as I said 1 in front and 1 behind.Stacks about 1800. With 1-2 players at the table doubled up to 3000.That's about middle stack. Sorry I know those things matter. I'm currently looking for questionable hands to post them here. Or I'll play some and post it when it hits me

[HighwayStar]

kikijiki, on Saturday, September 27th, 2008, 2:03 PM, said:

Position - as I said 1 in front and 1 behind.Stacks about 1800. With 1-2 players at the table doubled up to 3000.That's about middle stack. Sorry I know those things matter. I'm currently looking for questionable hands to post them here. Or I'll play some and post it when it hits me

Oh yea, didn't see that. Lazy reader.Sort of converted.25/50Hero (1800) MP raises to 150Button (3000) callsBB (3000) callsPot (475)Flop J 9 4 rBB checksHero bets 250Button calls 250BB calls 250Pot (1225)Turn J 9 4 8 (2 flush)BB checks?Hero ?You have 1400 behind and the other 2 have 2600 behindNasty spot. I'd probably bet more on the flop to make this decision easier. Say you bet 350, you're more likely to get HU with an opponent and if you don't you're leaving yourself less than a pot sized bet which is a fairly easy shove on most safe turns. The only turns that worry me here are a Q and K.As played I probably just bet 500-600 with the intention of getting it all in. A straight/2 pair shows up here a decent amount, but so do hands you crush like KJ/QJ/JT. A check raise all in looks ok I guess but there are quite a few dangerous rivers (K/Q/T/9/8/7) so I don't really want to give a free card.I hate making decisions against 2 opponents with TPTK so I definitely bet more on the flop..Generally as far as value continuation betting goes I bet 60% ish unless there is a specific stack-size or opponent I have to take into account.

[copernicus]

when your stack to pot ratio on the flop is less than 4 in a SnG, youre getting it all in with TPTK.

[kikijiki]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $3.00+$0.30 Tournament, 25/50 Blinds (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comsaw flop | saw showdownSB (t12050)BB (t2900)Hero (UTG) (t2620)UTG+1 (t2835)MP1 (t2555)MP2 (t4735)CO (t4650)Button (t8965)Button is fish, goes all-in pre flop with QJo, also calls all-in raise with middle pair top kicker.Preflop: Hero is BB with Q, AHero raises to t200, 4 folds, Button calls t200, Button calls t200, 1 fold, SB calls t150Flop: (t825) 2, A, 7 (4 players)SB checks, Hero bets t600, Button calls t600, 2 foldsTurn: (t2025) Q (2 players)Hero bets t1250, Button calls t1250River: (t4525) 10 (2 players)Hero bets t570 (All-In), Button calls t570Total pot: t5665So kind of this way any flaws? And how the hand turned out

[copernicus]

With a calling station Id bet pot on the flop, but its not going to make any difference to the outcome. Was his KJ suited at least?

[kikijiki]

HighwayStar, on Saturday, September 27th, 2008, 2:54 PM, said:

If you want to get better at MTTs on that sort of BR, play $4.40 180 mans. If you are a capable player you'll make a solid profit and learn more very quickly.

Thx man. I played in about 10-12, got 9th, 5th, 8th (after AA vs 99 with cheap lead, bullets didn't hold up) and 16th. Helped rebuild faith and part of the bankroll.

[SGFULTON83]

kikijiki, on Saturday, September 27th, 2008, 3:09 PM, said:

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $3.00+$0.30 Tournament, 25/50 Blinds (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comsaw flop | saw showdownSB (t12050)BB (t2900)Hero (UTG) (t2620)UTG+1 (t2835)MP1 (t2555)MP2 (t4735)CO (t4650)Button (t8965)Button is fish, goes all-in pre flop with QJo, also calls all-in raise with middle pair top kicker.Preflop: Hero is BB with Q, AHero raises to t200, 4 folds, Button calls t200, Button calls t200, 1 fold, SB calls t150Flop: (t825) 2, A, 7 (4 players)SB checks, Hero bets t600, Button calls t600, 2 foldsTurn: (t2025) Q (2 players)Hero bets t1250, Button calls t1250River: (t4525) 10 (2 players)Hero bets t570 (All-In), Button calls t570Total pot: t5665So kind of this way any flaws? And how the hand turned out

All-in on the turn IMO, no need leaving 500 chips behind unless you hold the stone cold nuts that can't be rivered.

[Mr. Sparco]

SGFULTON83, on Tuesday, September 30th, 2008, 2:43 PM, said:

All-in on the turn IMO, no need leaving 500 chips behind unless you hold the stone cold nuts that can't be rivered.

Given the fact that we're playing low stakes, I actually like the somewhat smaller turn bet. Against a good player, all the money is going in no matter what, so pushing the turn or making this bet are completely equivalent. A bad player on the other hand might miss the fact that you have so little behind and call on a draw with horrible odds. You're giving someone an (admittedly small) chance to make a mistake, which I think is always good.

[SGFULTON83]

OK, I am wrong.

[kikijiki]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $4.00+$0.40 Tournament, 150/300 Blinds 25 Ante (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comsaw flop | saw showdownMP2 (t6116)MP3 (t12775)CO (t8403)Button (t2149)SB (t8645)BB (t33519)Hero (UTG) (t12190)UTG+1 (t8960)MP1 (t2330)Preflop: Hero is UTG with 9, 9Hero calls t300, UTG+1 calls t300, 2 folds, MP3 calls t300, 3 folds, BB checksFlop: (t1575) 10, A, 10 (4 players)BB checks, Hero bets t600, 1 fold, MP3 calls t600, 1 foldTurn: (t2775) 2 (2 players)Hero checks, MP3 checksRiver: (t2775) 9 (2 players)Hero bets t1200, MP3 raises to t4200, Hero ??Call or raise? No data on the villan. Any other thoughts on how to play this hand? (I know I wanted him to raise on that river)

[HighwayStar]

kikijiki, on Wednesday, October 1st, 2008, 6:01 PM, said:

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $4.00+$0.40 Tournament, 150/300 Blinds 25 Ante (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comsaw flop | saw showdownMP2 (t6116)MP3 (t12775)CO (t8403)Button (t2149)SB (t8645)BB (t33519)Hero (UTG) (t12190)UTG+1 (t8960)MP1 (t2330)Preflop: Hero is UTG with 9, 9Hero calls t300, UTG+1 calls t300, 2 folds, MP3 calls t300, 3 folds, BB checksFlop: (t1575) 10, A, 10 (4 players)BB checks, Hero bets t600, 1 fold, MP3 calls t600, 1 foldTurn: (t2775) 2 (2 players)Hero checks, MP3 checksRiver: (t2775) 9 (2 players)Hero bets t1200, MP3 raises to t4200, Hero ??Call or raise? No data on the villan. Any other thoughts on how to play this hand? (I know I wanted him to raise on that river)

Hero raises preflop.If hero has to bet that flop (which I wouldn't recommend 4 way), hero bets more (1000). Seriously just C/F that flop as played.I like the turn!Puke at river. **** knows. I'm never in this spot by then.AT/T9 makes sense, as do a fair few slow played Tens. I guess there are more KT/QT/JT/T8 hands trapping and playing it this way than T9/AT (since T9 would mean all the 9s were out) so I probably get it in.Please raise preflop?!Please don't bet that flop 4 way?!

[HighwayStar]

Think of it this way, if you limp 99 there, you're pretty much relegating it to set value. So when the flop comes all overcards don't start building a pot.You could limp/shove vs certain stack sizes (about 12-20 BBs) and limp/call the < 10 BBs ones, there are only 3 of these stacks so it won't happen too often.I really don't like these 2 moves but you see them used quite a lot.

[outsider13]

kikijiki, on Wednesday, October 1st, 2008, 12:01 PM, said:

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $4.00+$0.40 Tournament, 150/300 Blinds 25 Ante (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comsaw flop | saw showdownMP2 (t6116)MP3 (t12775)CO (t8403)Button (t2149)SB (t8645)BB (t33519)Hero (UTG) (t12190)UTG+1 (t8960)MP1 (t2330)Preflop: Hero is UTG with 9, 9Hero calls t300, UTG+1 calls t300, 2 folds, MP3 calls t300, 3 folds, BB checksFlop: (t1575) 10, A, 10 (4 players)BB checks, Hero bets t600, 1 fold, MP3 calls t600, 1 foldTurn: (t2775) 2 (2 players)Hero checks, MP3 checksRiver: (t2775) 9 (2 players)Hero bets t1200, MP3 raises to t4200, Hero ??Call or raise? No data on the villan. Any other thoughts on how to play this hand? (I know I wanted him to raise on that river)

I think this has been said, but raise pf, check/fold flop. Check/fold turn. If you happened to get to the river, valuebet, call 3 bet. I think the way I play it, I never get to the river there so it's kind of a moot point.The way you played it, I'm pretty much calling there always. That could easily be KT, QT, maybe JT. I'm not crazy about the call, but I think you are ahead enough for it to be right.

[HighwayStar]

I'm guessing he showed up with AT/T9 right...I dunno if shoving that river is right, someone else will know that better than me. I'm fairly sure it is, and I get it all in and laugh when he flips JT

[kikijiki]

Ok than if I bet 3 BB before the flop - how to play this kind of flop with middle pair? Villan showed AT so he hit the nuts. But my problem is that I didn't know where I'm at on the river.

[copernicus]

I mix my pf play here, raising about 2/3 and limping 1/3. Either way Im shutting down with an A on the board and all of those runner. The chances we're ahead or can get an A to fold arent very good.

[outsider13]

kikijiki, on Wednesday, October 1st, 2008, 1:56 PM, said:

Ok than if I bet 3 BB before the flop - how to play this kind of flop with middle pair? Villan showed AT so he hit the nuts. But my problem is that I didn't know where I'm at on the river.

If you raise preflop and get one caller, what real difference does that make? You shouldn't lead out that flop regardless and that hand should rarely make it to the river. How he played that hand is exactly how I'd play it. Had you checked the flop, I'd check behind. If you check the turn, I throw a 1/3 pot bet, you should fold there too.Also, you can bet 2.5x preflop too. It will help keep the pot size under control, which makes it easier to let go when facing aggression.