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Discomfort With The Bailout


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#41 El Guapo

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Posted 26 September 2008 - 11:01 AM

View PostSuited_Up, on Friday, September 26th, 2008, 11:49 AM, said:

Sure there's things you can point to, but when you branch outside of this city it becomes pretty insignificant.
Well I used a Chicago example so you could relate it to your self. Now take a national company that has offices all over the country an apply the same logic.

View PostSuited_Up, on Friday, September 26th, 2008, 11:51 AM, said:

I was with you at first. Got caught up arguing too many different things at once.I still think that the guy who steps in might have value, but I think you need to limit how ridiculous his salary is until the company actually makes enough money to pay him that much.
I don't disagree, nobody will. But if a guy comes in and saves a billion dollars for a company, even if they don't technically turn a profit. That is a huge, huge value and deserves to be compensated for. Again, it may be down the road, or with stock options, preferred stock, etc.Amazon.com operated at a loss for years while it was being created. In fact the CEO in the late 90's actually said that there was no foreseeable future when they will have a profit, but they were still compensated very nicely.

#42 Suited_Up

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Posted 26 September 2008 - 11:03 AM

View PostEl Guapo, on Friday, September 26th, 2008, 2:01 PM, said:

Well I used a Chicago example so you could relate it to your self. Now take a national company that has offices all over the country an apply the same logic.I don't disagree, nobody will. But if a guy comes in and saves a billion dollars for a company, even if they don't technically turn a profit. That is a huge, huge value and deserves to be compensated for. Again, it may be down the road, or with stock options, preferred stock, etc.Amazon.com operated at a loss for years while it was being created. In fact the CEO in the late 90's actually said that there was no foreseeable future when they will have a profit, but they were still compensated very nicely.
I can't really argue with that. As long as there's some decent reasoning behind it, it's fine with me.
-Kurt

#43 Suited_Up

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Posted 26 September 2008 - 11:06 AM

Know what I think might actually help. (Based on my simple ideas)Double the minimum wage. (And obviously balance the middle areas somewhat proportionately) It would have to force companies to funnel some money back to the bottom. That's what we really need, money at the bottom so there's actually something to flow back upwards.Only issue would then be inflation. It's always growing faster than it should be. Inflation seems to be based on the top tier, and it should be based on the bottom.
-Kurt

#44 Mercury69

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Posted 26 September 2008 - 11:09 AM

It's certainly pretty well known that current minimum wages cannot keep pace with cost of living. Same is true here in Canada, if to a slightly lesser extent.
"We had all the momentum. We were riding the crest of a high and beautiful wave. So now, less than five years later, you can go up on a steep hill in Las Vegas and look west, and with the right kind of eyes you can almost see the high-water mark, that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back." —Raoul Duke, Fear And Loathing In Las Vegas

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#45 Suited_Up

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Posted 26 September 2008 - 11:10 AM

View PostMercury69, on Friday, September 26th, 2008, 2:09 PM, said:

It's certainly pretty well known that current minimum wages cannot keep pace with cost of living. Same is true here in Canada, if to a slightly lesser extent.
Then maybe they should do that instead of giving 700m to the companies that lost the money in the first place.
-Kurt

#46 El Guapo

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Posted 26 September 2008 - 11:11 AM

View PostSuited_Up, on Friday, September 26th, 2008, 12:03 PM, said:

I can't really argue with that. As long as there's some decent reasoning behind it, it's fine with me.
Well I thought we were getting somewhere...

View PostSuited_Up, on Friday, September 26th, 2008, 12:06 PM, said:

Double the minimum wage.
Until this

#47 Suited_Up

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Posted 26 September 2008 - 11:12 AM

View PostEl Guapo, on Friday, September 26th, 2008, 2:11 PM, said:

Well I thought we were getting somewhere...Until this
What problem can you possibly have with this?If you can pay the top guys whatever the hell you want, I think you should be able to bump up things all the way down the line. How can you argue for both sides of this?
-Kurt

#48 Loismustdie

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Posted 26 September 2008 - 11:12 AM

View PostEl Guapo, on Friday, September 26th, 2008, 12:11 PM, said:

Well I thought we were getting somewhere...Until this
What he said.
So much for a comeback.

#49 El Guapo

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Posted 26 September 2008 - 11:14 AM

View PostSuited_Up, on Friday, September 26th, 2008, 12:12 PM, said:

What problem can you possibly have with this?
I am afraid that you are serious right now.You actually want to pay people to work at McDonalds $16.00 an hour? That would make the economy collapse overnight. $.99 menu would be the $5.00 menu.EDIT: McDonalds has about 400,000 employees. < than 1% are earning top executive dollars. 300,000 or so are around min wage. Simple math.

#50 Suited_Up

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Posted 26 September 2008 - 11:15 AM

View PostEl Guapo, on Friday, September 26th, 2008, 2:14 PM, said:

I am afraid that you are serious right now.You actually want to pay people to work at McDonalds $16.00 an hour? That would make the economy collapse overnight. $.99 menu would be the $5.00 menu.
I told you, the inflation needs to somehow not go up with the wage.But as it stands now... minimum wage is not enough to even eat off the dollar menu. How does that somehow seem like the right thing to you?
-Kurt

#51 El Guapo

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Posted 26 September 2008 - 11:19 AM

View PostSuited_Up, on Friday, September 26th, 2008, 12:15 PM, said:

I told you, the inflation needs to somehow not go up with the wage.But as it stands now... minimum wage is not enough to even eat off the dollar menu. How does that somehow seem like the right thing to you?
I am not sure where you are going with this...Minimum wage jobs are not intended to be careers.

#52 Pot Odds RAC

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Posted 26 September 2008 - 11:22 AM

View PostMercury69, on Friday, September 26th, 2008, 3:09 PM, said:

It's certainly pretty well known that current minimum wages cannot keep pace with cost of living. Same is true here in Canada, if to a slightly lesser extent.
So don't take a minimum wage job (or at least not just one) if you are responsible for supporting a family.

#53 Suited_Up

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Posted 26 September 2008 - 11:23 AM

View PostEl Guapo, on Friday, September 26th, 2008, 2:19 PM, said:

I am not sure where you are going with this...Minimum wage jobs are not intended to be careers.
$16/hr is barely enough to live off of anymore.I'm just saying that even the jobs that are careers are not nearly enough to live comfortably off of. That needs to change from the bottom up.How about we say $12/hr instead? Point is that $7.50 or whatever it is is not even close to enough. It might not even be that much, cause I know it's higher here in IL.
-Kurt

#54 Loismustdie

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Posted 26 September 2008 - 11:23 AM

View PostSuited_Up, on Friday, September 26th, 2008, 12:15 PM, said:

I told you, the inflation needs to somehow not go up with the wage.But as it stands now... minimum wage is not enough to even eat off the dollar menu. How does that somehow seem like the right thing to you?
Don't take this wrong but I think this where your age comes in. You would be wise to listen to Guapo. I would say me but I like to go off on tangents now and then, whilst Guapo is much more level-headed.
So much for a comeback.

#55 Suited_Up

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Posted 26 September 2008 - 11:24 AM

View PostPot Odds RAC, on Friday, September 26th, 2008, 2:22 PM, said:

So don't take a minimum wage job (or at least not one) if you are responsible for supporting a family.
If you want to end welfare, you need a better solution than that. Because most of those people can't get better jobs than that. So you need to pay them enough to make them actually want to not sit around on welfare, and be able to afford living.
-Kurt

#56 Suited_Up

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Posted 26 September 2008 - 11:24 AM

View PostLoismustdie, on Friday, September 26th, 2008, 2:23 PM, said:

Don't take this wrong but I think this where your age comes in. You would be wise to listen to Guapo. I would say me but I like to go off on tangents now and then, whilst Guapo is much more level-headed.
What does age have to do with anything?I don't know exactly how old you are, but it's probably not more than 10 years difference. How does that matter?
-Kurt

#57 Loismustdie

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Posted 26 September 2008 - 11:27 AM

View PostSuited_Up, on Friday, September 26th, 2008, 12:24 PM, said:

What does age have to do with anything?I don't know exactly how old you are, but it's probably not more than 10 years difference. How does that matter?
Life experience and knowledge, so, everything.
So much for a comeback.

#58 El Guapo

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Posted 26 September 2008 - 11:28 AM

View PostSuited_Up, on Friday, September 26th, 2008, 12:23 PM, said:

$16/hr is barely enough to live off of anymore.I'm just saying that even the jobs that are careers are not nearly enough to live comfortably off of. That needs to change from the bottom up.How about we say $12/hr instead? Point is that $7.50 or whatever it is is not even close to enough. It might not even be that much, cause I know it's higher here in IL.
Your really not getting it. One of two things would happen, hyper inflation, which would counter act the pay increase or the company could no longer afford to do business. Walmart for instance has a 3-4% profit margin the operate on. That's it. You raise there cost of employees by 50%, they are raising prices or closing stores.This is black and white, no gray here.

#59 Suited_Up

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Posted 26 September 2008 - 11:28 AM

View PostLoismustdie, on Friday, September 26th, 2008, 2:27 PM, said:

Life experience and knowledge, so, everything.
Until someone gives me actual reasons why what I'm saying is wrong, then I see no reason to change my mind.
-Kurt

#60 El Guapo

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Posted 26 September 2008 - 11:28 AM

View PostSuited_Up, on Friday, September 26th, 2008, 12:24 PM, said:

If you want to end welfare, you need a better solution than that. Because most of those people can't get better jobs than that. So you need to pay them enough to make them actually want to not sit around on welfare, and be able to afford living.
Time limits on welfare. Problem solved.




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