9 replies to this topic

[PrtyPSux]

I posted my first big leak that I found in my game, this Is my second one:I think I might be overplaying my hands, specially in missed flops. I dont want to post too many hands but just say I have AK UTG and get 3 callers. the flop comes Q, 5, 9. Rainbow, I bet and get 2 callers, the turn comes J, now I feel I have to bet. I usually get called and check fold the river, but Im having trouble distinguishing when to bet a missed flop and when to check fold, and if I do bet a missed flop, should I check the turn if unimproved? It didnt seem to matter much playing 1-2 but now that I'm playing 2-4 those bets seem to add up.Also what should I do if I miss a flop heads up? I usually get pretty creative but against some players it backfires, so I just play very agressive, should I or should I just let these pots go? Here is an example of my heads up play:Ac Jc MP1PRE-FLOPI raise, CO calls, everyone foldsFLOP [board cards 6D,KS,2H ]I bet, he calls A lot of the time I check raise here and bet the turnTURN [board cards 6D,KS,2H,9D ]bet, callRIVER [board cards 6D,KS,2H,9D,8S ]I bet, CO raises, I foldSHOWDOWNCO wins $33.50.this is happening quite often, specially blind vs blind or when Im on the button.any tips on when to bet missed flops would be apreciated.

[waldo]

you have to know your opponents better, how often do they goto showdown, how often do they win showdown? get pokertracker if you dont have it and gametime+, will help you out tremendously

[wrto4556]

The river bet is ugly. I would check/fold against an unkown player.

[BigDMcGee]

PrtyPSux said:

I posted my first big leak that I found in my game, this Is my second one:I think I might be overplaying my hands, specially in missed flops. I dont want to post too many hands but just say I have AK UTG and get 3 callers. the flop comes Q, 5, 9. Rainbow, I bet and get 2 callers, the turn comes J, now I feel I have to bet. I usually get called and check fold the river, but Im having trouble distinguishing when to bet a missed flop and when to check fold, and if I do bet a missed flop, should I check the turn if unimproved? It didnt seem to matter much playing 1-2 but now that I'm playing 2-4 those bets seem to add up.Also what should I do if I miss a flop heads up? I usually get pretty creative but against some players it backfires, so I just play very agressive, should I or should I just let these pots go? Here is an example of my heads up play:Ac Jc MP1PRE-FLOPI raise, CO calls, everyone foldsFLOP [board cards 6D,KS,2H ]I bet, he calls A lot of the time I check raise here and bet the turnTURN [board cards 6D,KS,2H,9D ]bet, callRIVER [board cards 6D,KS,2H,9D,8S ]I bet, CO raises, I foldSHOWDOWNCO wins $33.50.this is happening quite often, specially blind vs blind or when Im on the button.any tips on when to bet missed flops would be apreciated.

Overplaying AK is really common, and another mistake I see all the time.. People seem to think that 'cause they raised pre flop with it, they are some how obligated to bet with it.. I think just beting with an unimproved AK into a multiway field is a really bad play... I would check, hoping for a free card.. if someone to my left who is a frequent bluffer bets, I will raise, trying to narrow the field, as My AK could be good in comparison to a draw. If I'm on the button, I'll take the free card. But just betting the unimproved AK the whole way is just dumb against mulitple opponents, most of the time.. IF you are on the button, and you take the free card, you can improve, and you can also induce a bluffer to bet the turn, whom you can raise... this raise looks alot scarier to people then just betting the whole way... people want reasons to call, they want to think you have ace king, so they call you down with bottom pair.. you have to take stronger action than this if you want to get that kind of hand out, and betting the whole way isn't it... but often, if there's a bet and a call, just let the hand go...as for heads up, betting the whole way is fine, you can easily have the best hand.. but don't bet on the river... check and proably call ( or fold depending on the player and/or river card) betting the river doesn't make any sense.. either they missed their hand they were drawing to and can't call you, or they were calling you down the whole way, and you're waisting a bet... it's really unlikly you'll get a better hand to fold on the river, and you open yourself up to a bluff raise ( rare but unfortuante) on the river. If you check, and they missed their draw, you can induce them into bluffing, and you call them down. Don't be afraid to check call on the river with AK.. AK beats bluffs, and usually pots are big enough that bluffing is a good enough chance to call... but betting it on the river is usually a big mistake.. only worse hands fold, not better ones..

[PrtyPSux]

BigDMcGee said:

PrtyPSux said:

I posted my first big leak that I found in my game, this Is my second one:I think I might be overplaying my hands, specially in missed flops. I dont want to post too many hands but just say I have AK UTG and get 3 callers. the flop comes Q, 5, 9. Rainbow, I bet and get 2 callers, the turn comes J, now I feel I have to bet. I usually get called and check fold the river, but Im having trouble distinguishing when to bet a missed flop and when to check fold, and if I do bet a missed flop, should I check the turn if unimproved? It didnt seem to matter much playing 1-2 but now that I'm playing 2-4 those bets seem to add up.Also what should I do if I miss a flop heads up? I usually get pretty creative but against some players it backfires, so I just play very agressive, should I or should I just let these pots go? Here is an example of my heads up play:Ac Jc MP1PRE-FLOPI raise, CO calls, everyone foldsFLOP [board cards 6D,KS,2H ]I bet, he calls A lot of the time I check raise here and bet the turnTURN [board cards 6D,KS,2H,9D ]bet, callRIVER [board cards 6D,KS,2H,9D,8S ]I bet, CO raises, I foldSHOWDOWNCO wins $33.50.this is happening quite often, specially blind vs blind or when Im on the button.any tips on when to bet missed flops would be apreciated.

Overplaying AK is really common, and another mistake I see all the time.. People seem to think that 'cause they raised pre flop with it, they are some how obligated to bet with it.. I think just beting with an unimproved AK into a multiway field is a really bad play... I would check, hoping for a free card.. if someone to my left who is a frequent bluffer bets, I will raise, trying to narrow the field, as My AK could be good in comparison to a draw. If I'm on the button, I'll take the free card. But just betting the unimproved AK the whole way is just dumb against mulitple opponents, most of the time.. IF you are on the button, and you take the free card, you can improve, and you can also induce a bluffer to bet the turn, whom you can raise... this raise looks alot scarier to people then just betting the whole way... people want reasons to call, they want to think you have ace king, so they call you down with bottom pair.. you have to take stronger action than this if you want to get that kind of hand out, and betting the whole way isn't it... but often, if there's a bet and a call, just let the hand go...as for heads up, betting the whole way is fine, you can easily have the best hand.. but don't bet on the river... check and proably call ( or fold depending on the player and/or river card) betting the river doesn't make any sense.. either they missed their hand they were drawing to and can't call you, or they were calling you down the whole way, and you're waisting a bet... it's really unlikly you'll get a better hand to fold on the river, and you open yourself up to a bluff raise ( rare but unfortuante) on the river. If you check, and they missed their draw, you can induce them into bluffing, and you call them down. Don't be afraid to check call on the river with AK.. AK beats bluffs, and usually pots are big enough that bluffing is a good enough chance to call... but betting it on the river is usually a big mistake.. only worse hands fold, not better ones..

thanks, so then should I limit my flop bets to when I either hit the flop or pick up a good draw only? Maybe throw in cold bluffs when Im heads up too? Or should I do a bit more follow up betting when I raise? It just seems that Im gonna look too weak If I check everytime I miss the flop with more than 2 callers.

[BigDMcGee]

Because you are weak.. that's the thing.. it matters more if you look weak heads up.. but with two or more callers, it doesn't matter if you look weak, you are weak in an unimproved flop.. you should be looking for reasons to either fold, or look strong.. a bet doesn't look strong.. for example, lets say you're under the gun, get four cold callers and the blinds... ( You have AK) the flop is j 8 3 with two hearts... the blinds check, you check, everyone checks to the button, who is a freiquent semi bluffer.. he bets, the two blind fold.. you should raise here, to try and narrow the field.... just betting out into that scares no one, it's a big pot, and they want to put you on AK anyway.. you have to give them a reason to think you're something other than AK, like over pair, and only a raise can do that.. if you can't raise, it's better just to check.. checks from pre flop raisers can look fishy, and checks can get you precious free cards... but again, don't be afraid to look weak, when you are weak in multi way feilds.. most flops aren't going to help AK, and they will help someone in some way in a multiway field, so letting the hand go if you can't get people out with a raise is the way to go, IMO

[PrtyPSux]

BigDMcGee said:

Because you are weak.. that's the thing.. it matters more if you look weak heads up.. but with two or more callers, it doesn't matter if you look weak, you are weak in an unimproved flop.. you should be looking for reasons to either fold, or look strong.. a bet doesn't look strong.. for example, lets say you're under the gun, get four cold callers and the blinds... ( You have AK) the flop is j 8 3 with two hearts... the blinds check, you check, everyone checks to the button, who is a freiquent semi bluffer.. he bets, the two blind fold.. you should raise here, to try and narrow the field.... just betting out into that scares no one, it's a big pot, and they want to put you on AK anyway.. you have to give them a reason to think you're something other than AK, like over pair, and only a raise can do that.. if you can't raise, it's better just to check.. checks from pre flop raisers can look fishy, and checks can get you precious free cards... but again, don't be afraid to look weak, when you are weak in multi way feilds.. most flops aren't going to help AK, and they will help someone in some way in a multiway field, so letting the hand go if you can't get people out with a raise is the way to go, IMO

see but here is where I have the most problem, What do I do when everyone folds to the semibluffer who call, and the turn comes j or 5 (no heart) ??? betting here will get a call if he is in fact semibluffing a flushdraw, but I cant bet the river because of what you said before (that he'll only call if he has me beat). should I check/fold that turn even if there is a strong chance hes semibluffing??

[BigDMcGee]

Check call the river , consider folding if raised on the turn... Once you ahve raised on the flop, you must bet out again ( if you got it heads up) now, on the other hand if like 3 people cold called your bet, time to abort, and cut your losses.. but if you're heads up with the semibluffer, dont' check, you proably have the best hand..

[PrtyPSux]

BigDMcGee said:

Check call the river , consider folding if raised on the turn... Once you ahve raised on the flop, you must bet out again ( if you got it heads up) now, on the other hand if like 3 people cold called your bet, time to abort, and cut your losses.. but if you're heads up with the semibluffer, dont' check, you proably have the best hand..

makes sense, thx.

[BigDMcGee]

IT's like your overplaying it, and underplaying it at the same time.. I would bet AK all the way, trying to shove it down people's throats.. now I look for opportunit's when I have a weak hand to push AK off their hand... I frequently raise preflop raisers on the flop and turn with marginal hands or draws if I think they have ace king...the raise, bet bet bet thing in multiway pots with ace king is a really common mistake I see people make alot. It's actually a really weak play, and obvious to an attentive player... if someone sees that you always bet AK the whole way, they'll be calling you down with any pair, and raising you with no pair