8 replies to this topic

[PrtyPSux]

I have two leaks that I found, and I think they contribute to the big swings Im having, I think I might be over playing my hands a lot.The first leak I found is that I'm having trouble folding the turn or river, (mostly the river) on semi big or big pots.Here are a few hands I found that kinda explain my problem:Im UTG + 1 with 10,10UTG calls, I raise, MP1 calls, button calls, BB 3bets, 4 calls. (15 sb)FLOP: 10 9 ,8 BB bets, UTG calls, I raise, MP1 folds, BB 3 bets, UTG calls, I cap, 2 calls. (13.5 BB)TURN: Q BB checks, UTG checks, I raise, BB raises, UTG calls, I call.I get checkraised but I have to call and see the river with 11 outs right?RIVER: 2 BB bets, UTG folds, I call. I make a crying call, should I be doing this?---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------PRE-FLOPUTG calls, I raise, Button calls, UTGcalls.FLOP [board cards 2D,7D,JC ]UTG checks, I bet, Button calls, UTG folds.TURN [board cards 2D,7D,JC,8H ] I bet, button raises, I 3 bet, button caps, I call.RIVER [board cards 2D,7D,JC,8H,QC ]I check, button bets, I callSHOWDOWNbutton shows [ 10S,9S ]I show [ AS,AC ]Button wins $56.50.I keep doing this,Its like somehow If I call the turn I automatically call the river. should I fold when someone wakes up on the turn or river? how big does a pot have to be to make loose calls profitable? and how loose can you get in a big pot? should I be calling with TPTK or an overpair? or do I need a stronger hand like a set or two pair?there is another big leak I think I found in my game, but Ill make another post so this one doesnt get confusing.thanks,

[BigDMcGee]

But the calls on the river weren't them..Don't beat yourself up for making a crying river call, that first pot was huge.....Second, your 3 bet was really suspect.. people put you on an overpair, 'cause you raised before the flop, right.. well, their re raise says they can beat it, the four bet says they can KILL it.. you shouldn't have re raised, you should have called down, but if you do 3 bet, you should have foldedto the cap, there's no way AA is good.... that said, if you call on the turn, folding on the river is a bigger mistake.. People seem to sweat river calls so much, river calls are nothing.. look at your play on other streets.. river folds are what is disasterous..

[wrto4556]

The first one, I think you should check the turn and call the river if its one bet to you and fold if its two...unless you fill up.The second hand...3-betting that turn was just aweful. Call down.

[BigDMcGee]

One of the biggest Mistakes I see people make is over playing their pocket pair on the turn.. I mean, people KNOW you are representing a big hand, 'cause you raised or re raised pre flop, and yet are still raising.. you need to think about what people think you have in poker, and if people put you on a strong hand, and raise anyway, this should give you pause...

[PrtyPSux]

wrto4556 said:

The first one, I think you should check the turn and call the river if its one bet to you and fold if its two...unless you fill up.The second hand...3-betting that turn was just aweful. Call down.

so check calling down is better than raising and then folding to a reraise?

[wrto4556]

Which hand are you talking about?Well, I'll answer both.The AA hand, 3-betting and folding to a cap is horrible. An aggressive player will cap with two pair which you have odds to draw for. It's safer to just call down the turn raise.The TT hand...it's a dangerous board and 4 to a straight just hit and you've been getting alot of action...I would take the free card and river a 9 and go to war.

[BigDMcGee]

is proably a good idea.. when draws get there, it's usually time to check some turns, particularly against tricky, check raising kind of opponents... on the other hand, I don't hink a bet is that bad here, since there are other draws like the flush draw out there

[PrtyPSux]

I think I got the flop, and the River down a bit, but that turn is a bit.ch. Basically what you guys are saying is that I should be careful on the turn, but if I see the river I should usually call down (unless ofcourse Im overcalling with a 2nd or 3rd best hand, or I missed a draw). Likewise, when I think Im ahead on the turn and no action indicates otherwise (say I bet my set on the turn and get 2 callers) I should bet the river too, even if one of the draws does hit..am I right?

[BigDMcGee]

PrtyPSux said:

I think I got the flop, and the River down a bit, but that turn is a bit.ch. Basically what you guys are saying is that I should be careful on the turn, but if I see the river I should usually call down (unless ofcourse Im overcalling with a 2nd or 3rd best hand, or I missed a draw). Likewise, when I think Im ahead on the turn and no action indicates otherwise (say I bet my set on the turn and get 2 callers) I should bet the river too, even if one of the draws does hit..am I right?

Depends what your read is on your opponent.. some foes I have ( this is in live games) I just know are on draws, so I will check if the draw gets there.. Also, the more people in the pot, the more likely it is that someone is going to have a draw.. what you need to ask yourself on the river when value betting is, do I think this bet is going to win money if called the majority of the time.. if it's multi way, some times you'll be raised, and some times you'll get more than one caller, so it's not really 50 percent.. you just have to think there's a reasonable chance you ahve the best hand AND that someone with a worse hand is going to call you... often on the river worse hands will call you, particularly if you have a set, one and two pair hands will call.. People miss way too many river bets, IMO