Jump to content


Preflop Raising At Loose Cheap Tables


  • Please log in to reply
81 replies to this topic

#41 jmbreslin

jmbreslin

    Poker Forum Veteran

  • Members
  • 4,788 posts
  • Favorite Poker Game:8-Game

Posted 22 September 2008 - 11:15 AM

Would it also be fair to say that the gap concept has less significance in LHE than NLHE (at least with respect to suited and/or connected cards) because you'll often get the right price to draw postflop when you call a PF raise with those hands? I'm just trying to get a sense of the major strategic adjustments required in moving from NLHE to LHE.
的ntegrity is doing the right thing, even if nobody is watching." - Anonymous

#42 Dirtydutch

Dirtydutch

    'Skatez

  • Members
  • 12,839 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 22 September 2008 - 01:29 PM

View Postjmbreslin, on Monday, September 22nd, 2008, 11:15 AM, said:

Would it also be fair to say that the gap concept has less significance in LHE than NLHE (at least with respect to suited and/or connected cards) because you'll often get the right price to draw postflop when you call a PF raise with those hands? I'm just trying to get a sense of the major strategic adjustments required in moving from NLHE to LHE.
No, not in general. It really depends on the game texture. If you're playing in a game with really spewy post-flop action and lot and lot of limpers, and little chance of a 3-bet behind, it's OK to cold call some stuff like KJs or 55 or something, in my opinion, but as a rule, cold-calling is a no-no.

#43 checkymcfold

checkymcfold

    almost back to real stakes.

  • Members
  • 9,114 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:stanley mission, sk
  • Favorite Poker Game:night baseball

Posted 22 September 2008 - 01:43 PM

pardon my ignorance, but i'm not into book learnin'. what's the gap concept?
QUOTE (Dirtydutch @ Tuesday, December 2nd, 2008, 12:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If there are two things LHE players like, they are weed and pornography. The third would be kittens. LHE does not appear on the list.





#44 Dirtydutch

Dirtydutch

    'Skatez

  • Members
  • 12,839 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 22 September 2008 - 02:05 PM

View Postcheckymcfold, on Monday, September 22nd, 2008, 1:43 PM, said:

pardon my ignorance, but i'm not into book learnin'. what's the gap concept?
Basically the principle that you can raise pre-flop with worse hole cards than it would take to just call, in a lot of instances, I believe.

#45 Frez

Frez

    Poker Forum Veteran

  • Members
  • 1,042 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sherwood Park, Alberta
  • Favorite Poker Game:HORSE. Home game donkaments

Posted 22 September 2008 - 05:20 PM

View Postcheckymcfold, on Monday, September 22nd, 2008, 3:43 PM, said:

pardon my ignorance, but i'm not into book learnin'. what's the gap concept?
It's Skalansky - it takes a stonger hand to call a raise than it does to make one.
Progress is made by lazy men looking for easier ways to do things. (Robert Heinlein).

#46 checkymcfold

checkymcfold

    almost back to real stakes.

  • Members
  • 9,114 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:stanley mission, sk
  • Favorite Poker Game:night baseball

Posted 22 September 2008 - 09:26 PM

View PostFrez, on Monday, September 22nd, 2008, 9:20 PM, said:

It's Skalansky - it takes a stonger hand to call a raise than it does to make one.
unless you're me in a blind battle :club:
QUOTE (Dirtydutch @ Tuesday, December 2nd, 2008, 12:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If there are two things LHE players like, they are weed and pornography. The third would be kittens. LHE does not appear on the list.





#47 antistuff

antistuff

    monotonously monotonous

  • Members
  • 5,466 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:new york city

Posted 22 September 2008 - 09:43 PM

i dont feel like digging through my bookshelves, but im pretty sure the gap concept applies to tournaments.
QUOTE ( Barry Greenstein)
Successful gamblers are compulsive winners.

#48 jmbreslin

jmbreslin

    Poker Forum Veteran

  • Members
  • 4,788 posts
  • Favorite Poker Game:8-Game

Posted 23 September 2008 - 05:37 AM

I thought it was just one of those fundamental laws of poker in general...
的ntegrity is doing the right thing, even if nobody is watching." - Anonymous

#49 David_Nicoson

David_Nicoson

    Official Forum Me

  • Members
  • 4,418 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Indianapolis
  • Interests:Poker<br />Poker<br />Sex<br />Sleep<br />baseball<br />softball<br />Poker<br />Poker<br />Poker<br />Axis and Allies and other lesser board games<br />Chess<br />Poker<br />Poker<br />Poker
  • Favorite Poker Game:pot-limit Euchre

Posted 23 September 2008 - 05:48 AM

View Postjmbreslin, on Tuesday, September 23rd, 2008, 9:37 AM, said:

I thought it was just one of those fundamental laws of poker in general...
Sklansky defined it in Tournament Poker for Advanced Players, IIRC. I'm sure it applies more to short-stack situations, because in other situations it's not so important how our hand runs hot & cold against the preflop raiser.
QUOTE(bleacherbum3 @ Friday, February 29th, 2008, 3:28 AM) View Post
I'm invincible. Like Super Mario when he gets that star thingy.


#50 jmbreslin

jmbreslin

    Poker Forum Veteran

  • Members
  • 4,788 posts
  • Favorite Poker Game:8-Game

Posted 23 September 2008 - 05:54 AM

Now that you mention it I guess that would make perfect sense.
的ntegrity is doing the right thing, even if nobody is watching." - Anonymous

#51 Zach6668

Zach6668

    FCHL Champion.

  • Moderators
  • 48,075 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Toronto, ON

Posted 24 September 2008 - 10:26 AM

View Postjmbreslin, on Friday, September 19th, 2008, 8:49 PM, said:

I don't think I could convince the wife to let me put aside several hundred dollars for my friday night poker bankroll...
I think this is the first leak that we need to fix...... and I don't mean break up with your wife, or whatever, and I'm by no means a relationship consultant or qualified to do anything in this world... but like, I dunno... grow a pair? Again, I'm not saying you need to be the dominant one, or wear the pants, or whatever, but several hundred dollars is not a lot of money, it shouldn't be something that can strain a relationship, especially when there's an expectation that it can be replenished internally.
QUOTE (serge @ Tuesday, May 12th, 2009, 7:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
LETS GO PITTSBURGH
QUOTE (Acid_Knight @ Monday, March 10th, 2008, 4:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Zach is right about pretty much everything.

#52 jmbreslin

jmbreslin

    Poker Forum Veteran

  • Members
  • 4,788 posts
  • Favorite Poker Game:8-Game

Posted 24 September 2008 - 11:04 AM

LOL, it's not exactly a strain on the relationship. But we are a young family on a monthly budget and can't afford to throw around money. And since we're a two-income family I can't pull the "I'm the one bringing home the bacon" line, even if I wanted to.
的ntegrity is doing the right thing, even if nobody is watching." - Anonymous

#53 antistuff

antistuff

    monotonously monotonous

  • Members
  • 5,466 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:new york city

Posted 24 September 2008 - 11:43 AM

View Postjmbreslin, on Wednesday, September 24th, 2008, 3:04 PM, said:

LOL, it's not exactly a strain on the relationship. But we are a young family on a monthly budget and can't afford to throw around money. And since we're a two-income family I can't pull the "I'm the one bringing home the bacon" line, even if I wanted to.
if you play and win at even micro limit poker you guys could take a pretty nice vacation every year on just that. or put it in a cd every six months and put it towards a house in a few years. even at .25/.50, it adds up much quicker than most people think (and i think you play higher than that). it sounds like your friends are playing nl$100. if you play with them every friday for five hours you will average at least your utility bills each month, if not more. some of these angles might help.i am sort of having the same problems with my girlfriend. not quite a wife, but its not far fetched to say we are engaged without the ring. i quit my job which i was doing very well at and have been playing poker for the past four or five months (time flies when you're this free lol). while i am trying to start a business right now, and if that happens i will do very well, its hard to explain to somebody that you are not a degenerate gambling bum. and its even harder when they see a thousand dollars of their future sitting at a table in AC and you are tossing chips in the pot like you couldn't care less about them (she was sitting behind me in a 2/5 game and was very, very disturbed). the part that pisses me off is that its wonderful when i win a bunch, but horrible when i lose. you won $800!! wow danny, thats a lot of money thats great what are you going to do with it? you lost $500, what they hell were you thinking, you could have bought blah blah blah with that. but, i digress...my attitude has pretty much been well this is who i am and its what i do and its one of the things that i really love doing so its not going to change. i wouldn't expect this to work for most people who aren't me (whose others feel as adamantly about it as she does).but in all fairness, if you guys are buying in for $100 and the game is at all aggressive, don't expect to win much if at all unless you are comfortable dropping $400 in a night. poker can be a social activity too, it doesn't have to be just a making money thing. its fine to play like that if you play with the understanding that thats what you are doing. ranty and maybe not all that relevant to you. i guess i also just felt like bitching about that a little.
QUOTE ( Barry Greenstein)
Successful gamblers are compulsive winners.

#54 Dirtydutch

Dirtydutch

    'Skatez

  • Members
  • 12,839 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 24 September 2008 - 03:32 PM

Civilians seem largely incapable of understanding the whole "it's operating capital, the swings are meaningless, my winrate is X" thing. I prefer it that way; if my poker play comes up, I like to play up my degeneracy, now.

#55 Zach6668

Zach6668

    FCHL Champion.

  • Moderators
  • 48,075 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Toronto, ON

Posted 25 September 2008 - 03:34 AM

I just think that you'll never be a good winning poker player if you can't get over the fact that money is just the way we keep score.Like 3/4 of the posts you make seem to be about being scared of variance, or scared of losing the rent money, or not being able to convince your wife to use a tiny sum of money to invest in your game.You need to seperate life money and poker money, and understand exactly what Dutch was saying. Poker money is working capital, and like any business, it costs money to make money.
QUOTE (serge @ Tuesday, May 12th, 2009, 7:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
LETS GO PITTSBURGH
QUOTE (Acid_Knight @ Monday, March 10th, 2008, 4:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Zach is right about pretty much everything.

#56 jmbreslin

jmbreslin

    Poker Forum Veteran

  • Members
  • 4,788 posts
  • Favorite Poker Game:8-Game

Posted 25 September 2008 - 06:11 AM

Zach, people on this forum also have to appreciate that not everyone who plays poker is a pro or semi-pro, relying on the game for a full or supplemental income. I'm at a very different stage in my life from 98% of FCPers. I'm not a young, unattached college kid (or just out of college) and I'm also not a well-established middle-aged man (or retiree). I'm in my early 30's, with a full time public service job, a wife and two young children, and a boat load of personal and financial responsibility. Poker is a hobby for me. I play because I enjoy the strategic aspect of poker and the challenge of getting better, as well as the potential to make some money. I play micro stakes online a couple of hours in the evenings, and I like to get out and play a live game with some buddies now and then. For the time being that's it. I'm not interested in laying down the law with my wife or withdrawing $1000 to open up a separate poker account to fund my friday night games.antistuff (Danny?), your post was actually very relevant.
的ntegrity is doing the right thing, even if nobody is watching." - Anonymous

#57 Zach6668

Zach6668

    FCHL Champion.

  • Moderators
  • 48,075 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Toronto, ON

Posted 25 September 2008 - 06:16 AM

That's fine. And I'm telling you that in order to get better (the challenge, as you put it), you need to seperate poker from real life. Worrying about money while playing poker is a leak. Plain and simple. I don't care if you're a pro, or a play money player. There's a reason why a lot of people, when they initially turn pro, myself included, go on a decent sized downswing. It's not coincidence. All of a sudden, you start worrying about making money, and it clouds your judgment.And with respect to your family life, I'm sorry I touched on it, what you do is your own decision. However, issues like that, relating to money, are leaks when sitting at the poker table. It's up to you if or how you want to deal with it.
QUOTE (serge @ Tuesday, May 12th, 2009, 7:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
LETS GO PITTSBURGH
QUOTE (Acid_Knight @ Monday, March 10th, 2008, 4:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Zach is right about pretty much everything.

#58 Gargoyle97

Gargoyle97

    Poker Forum Regular

  • Members
  • 104 posts

Posted 25 September 2008 - 08:36 AM

OP,You need to listen to these guys. Their advice is spot on.Maybe you should just consider the live games as entertainment expense and leave it in your household budget. If you aren't accounting for that expense as part of your night out you are doing yourself an injustice. It doesn't have anything to do with your skill level--one buyin isn't enough to realize your EV even if you can crush the game. So call it what is (entertainment) and correctly account for the cost. Don't assume the gambling money will come out even in the end (win some/lose some, etc) so you can ignore that money in the cost for the night out.Work on your poker game with the micro stakes on-line using a separate bankroll.

#59 jmbreslin

jmbreslin

    Poker Forum Veteran

  • Members
  • 4,788 posts
  • Favorite Poker Game:8-Game

Posted 25 September 2008 - 09:08 AM

View PostGargoyle97, on Thursday, September 25th, 2008, 12:36 PM, said:

Maybe you should just consider the live games as entertainment expense and leave it in your household budget.
That's not a bad idea, actually. That way I can keep control over it and not feel that I'm overspending the budget when I lose. And if there isn't any room in the budget, I don't play that month.
的ntegrity is doing the right thing, even if nobody is watching." - Anonymous

#60 Zach6668

Zach6668

    FCHL Champion.

  • Moderators
  • 48,075 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Toronto, ON

Posted 25 September 2008 - 09:26 AM

That is a good alternative approach, as well, imho.
QUOTE (serge @ Tuesday, May 12th, 2009, 7:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
LETS GO PITTSBURGH
QUOTE (Acid_Knight @ Monday, March 10th, 2008, 4:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Zach is right about pretty much everything.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users