10 replies to this topic

[silverwin]

Can someone teach me the percentages or link me to some easy to understand articles. Ive been looking over the internet, but there isnt one that explains it well, like what to do. :-) Thanks,Silverwin

[silverwin]

Alright, so ive done more searches, and decided to give this site a shot:http://teamfu.freesh...poker_odds.htmlNow I understand Calculating hand odds, but when it starts talking about Pot odds and combinning then, im lost. And I still dont understand how you apply it to the game.Novice player,Please Help,Thanks

[DCWildcat]

In a very brief nutshell...Pot odds give you direction for calling/folding (not so much betting or raising). They literally compare reward to risk. For example, you'll note that thing says you are 4 to 1 to hit a 5th flush card on the river if you already have 4 parts to it. Pot odds say that if the total amount you would win (aka, the pot and all bets in front of you) are at least 4 times what it would cost you to call, you should call. If less, you fold.

[DCWildcat]

I realize that might not make a lot of sense. Consider this example:Board: 2 3 8 Q You hold: A 9 You're heads up. The pot is $100. The other player bets $25. So you're getting 5 to 1 to call ((100 + 25)/25). You should call.But if the pot was $50 and his bet was still $25, you should fold ($75/$25 = 3 to 1).If you're a limit hold 'em player, go buy Small Stakes Hold 'Em right now. It'll be the best $25 you've ever spent.

[silverwin]

Alright Thanks,Can someone give me another example or two without the answer or something, and ill give it a shot.I have a question about counting the outs, so....lets say the flops comes 7 8 king I hold a K 5 , so yeah i might have top pair, but what about the possiblity of a two pair? Do I count the possiblity of a two pair an negative out for me?Thanks.

[akishore]

buy the new ed miller book, "getting started in hold'em".it'll be a godsend.i highly recommend AGAINST "small stakes hold 'em" for a beginner--it'll be way over your head.after a few months of playing hold 'em and being able to calculate pot odds instantly, etc., return and get "small stakes hold 'em".aseem

[DCWildcat]

akishore said:

buy the new ed miller book, "getting started in hold'em".it'll be a godsend.i highly recommend AGAINST "small stakes hold 'em" for a beginner--it'll be way over your head.after a few months of playing hold 'em and being able to calculate pot odds instantly, etc., return and get "small stakes hold 'em".aseem

Agreed.I'm not sure you quite understand what outs are. An out is card that improves your hand. A 5 would be an out in this case-it'd give you two pair, obviously improving your hand. There are 3 left in the deck, so you have 3 outs right there. You also have another 2 outs left in kings, giving you trips. You don't factor in what opponents may have when counting outs; after all, every possible flop could conceivably give the two pair you mentioned. You do, however, factor in what outs may be less valuable. For example, say you haveK Q 7Flop is Q 7 2 :heart:So initially you would have 5 outs- 3 kings and 2 queens. But 2 of those outs- the king of hearts and the queen of hearts--put 3 cards to a flush on the board. So even though your hands would improve by hitting either of those cards, it may make someone improve more by giving them a flush. So you could make those each worth a 1/2 out. So you have 4 outs instead of five. Does that make sense?

[Diboss]

DCWildcat said:

I realize that might not make a lot of sense. Consider this example:Board: 2 3 8 Q You hold: A 9 You're heads up. The pot is $100. The other player bets $25. So you're getting 5 to 1 to call ((100 + 25)/25). You should call.But if the pot was $50 and his bet was still $25, you should fold ($75/$25 = 3 to 1).If you're a limit hold 'em player, go buy Small Stakes Hold 'Em right now. It'll be the best $25 you've ever spent.

Just nitpicking here, but you also have an overcard...that's potentially 3 more outs, and if it's heads up, your ace high might still be good :-)But I understand the point you were making...

[DCWildcat]

Diboss said:

Just nitpicking here, but you also have an overcard...that's potentially 3 more outs, and if it's heads up, your ace high might still be good :-)But I understand the point you were making...

He's absolutely right 8)Sorry about that. Remember to check and double check, like I just neglected to do. It's important, and can often sway a fold to a call and vice versa.

[silverwin]

DCWildcat said:

akishore said:

buy the new ed miller book, "getting started in hold'em".it'll be a godsend.i highly recommend AGAINST "small stakes hold 'em" for a beginner--it'll be way over your head.after a few months of playing hold 'em and being able to calculate pot odds instantly, etc., return and get "small stakes hold 'em".aseem

Agreed.I'm not sure you quite understand what outs are. An out is card that improves your hand. A 5 would be an out in this case-it'd give you two pair, obviously improving your hand. There are 3 left in the deck, so you have 3 outs right there. You also have another 2 outs left in kings, giving you trips. You don't factor in what opponents may have when counting outs; after all, every possible flop could conceivably give the two pair you mentioned. You do, however, factor in what outs may be less valuable. For example, say you haveK Q 7Flop is Q 7 2 :heart:So initially you would have 5 outs- 3 kings and 2 queens. But 2 of those outs- the king of hearts and the queen of hearts--put 3 cards to a flush on the board. So even though your hands would improve by hitting either of those cards, it may make someone improve more by giving them a flush. So you could make those each worth a 1/2 out. So you have 4 outs instead of five. Does that make sense?

Thanks Guyshmmm... when you say you only factor in what outs may be less valuble, wouldnt a possible two pair go agasint me, so how come i dont factor that in.

[DCWildcat]

I'm confused about your possible two pair. If a card comes that could give your opponent two pair, it falls in one of two categories:1) It's either an out that you have (such as a king)2) It's an out you don't have.If it's 2, it's not an out, so it is irrelevant. A card that doesn't improve your hand is irrelevant in calculating outs.If it's 1, you adjust it to be lower. I think you're thinking of a hand such as KQ in that last example, where a king would be an out for you (giving you a pair), but also giving your opponent two pair (kings and queens). The problem here is one of uncertainty. You can spot a flush or a straight draw, and you can adjust your outs for that. But you can't do that for your two pair example, because any card in the deck could conceivably give them that two pair. It'd make counting outs impossible if you tried to do that.Does that make sense?