11 replies to this topic

[siquinte]

PokerStars Game #19620528107: Tournament #102164724, $3.00+$0.40 Hold'em No Limit - Level III (25/50) - 2008/08/14 - 19:06:45 (ET)
Table '102164724 1' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: DC420DC (1550 in chips)
Seat 2: siquinte (1495 in chips)
Seat 4: christ1218 (960 in chips)
Seat 5: 302Skiddoo (1130 in chips)
Seat 7: martymoto (1715 in chips)
Seat 8: xx_vicci_xx (1775 in chips)
Seat 9: foglo (1290 in chips)
foglo: posts small blind 25
DC420DC: posts big blind 50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to siquinte [Ac Kc]
siquinte: raises 100 to 150
christ1218: calls 150
302Skiddoo: calls 150
martymoto: calls 150
xx_vicci_xx: folds
foglo: folds
DC420DC: folds
*** FLOP *** [Qc 9s 6c]
siquinte: checks
christ1218: bets 810 and is all-in
302Skiddoo: calls 810
martymoto: calls 810
hero??

The table is pretty loose (as you can see), i don't have major reads, and this isn't the first big pot of the tournament, nothing as crazy as this, but their range is pretty big.
Can i call here with the nut flush draw and 2 over cards? my first instinct tells me fold but it looks tempting.

[pokerinc]

good god call call call call call call call.


then call. hellmuth insta all in

[STYLINHAWYN]

lead 4x - 5x pf with the intention of calling or shoving allin

flop youve flopped 2 overcards and a flush draw, your a slight favorite over any pair and crushing any other hand. lead with the intention of calling anything.

no way your getting away from this hand sir, gl

[copernicus]

The overcards here are next to worthless, and the flush draw needs to be discounted for 1 or 2 full house draws. Without stoving it, it still looks like an easy call.


Yup: against AA, 66, 99 you have 29% equity and are getting well above 3:1. Worst case is against AA, KK, QQ which is still 27%.

[Biff Goods]

ya as much as I would hate the way the other people played this hand I think it's an absolute call as well.

Just don't forget to hit.

[slink]

How can I tell the table is pretty loose? Because you're at level 3 and everyone is relatively close? Or is it sarcasm? Anyway I throw this hand away. Why risk it? I see you are getting 3 to 1 but if you lose you're crippled.

Are pot odds more useful in a cash game rather than a tourney?

[GeneralGeeWhiz]

fist pump titty slap push!

[copernicus]

Are pot odds more useful in a cash game rather than a tourney?

At this point in an MTT theres no difference in cash (albeit short stack cash) and tourney play. Chip EV is king.

[slink]

At this point in an MTT theres no difference in cash (albeit short stack cash) and tourney play. Chip EV is king.

But in general?

I mean if I'm gettin say 4 to 1 on a flush draw all-in, or close to it, Im gonna not make it almost 2/3 of the time.

[MovingIn]

if I'm gettin say 4 to 1 on a flush draw all-in, or close to it, Im gonna not make it almost 2/3 of the time.

It depends on whether dropping $3.40 and losing more than half our stack here is worth it to the OP to take a ~25-30% shot at more than tripling up and building a commanding stack early. If the OP is confident he can run over the table and steamroll to FT and a top cashing spot when a draw like this hits, it's probably worth it because for every 2-3 times he misses, the other time he gets there and usually cashes huge, offsetting the likely losses from the other 2-3 times he falls short. And needless to say, if he misses here, he's short stacked... but he's not out of it. He's a couple of double-ups or even a triple-up from jumping right back in the hunt.

Otherwise... if OP feels he can fold this, still be competitive and be able to take advantage of larger edges later, it may be worth it to him to pass even though he has the pot odds. However, assuming he's not out of his bankroll (and in a $3+.40 I strongly doubt that's the case), I lean towards calling and going for the home run.

[copernicus]

But in general?

I mean if I'm gettin say 4 to 1 on a flush draw all-in, or close to it, Im gonna not make it almost 2/3 of the time.

No brainer call, cash or early (ie non-bubble, non pay-structure) tourney. 4 x .333 - 1 x .667 = .667, which is a huge return on a bet of 1. You cant possibly pass it up in normal situations. AA preflop is .85, so HU your EV is .70 for a bet of 1...not a heck of a lot better, but i dont think youre ever laying down AA except on the bubble of a satellite.

[siquinte]

Well it took me a while but in the end i called, i just thought oh well chip EV i can't fold this, glad i made the right decision acording to you.

I called and the turn brought the A of spades so my 500 left went right in, first guy thinks a little, calls and a fold. He shows QJ spades he's behind with a flush draw too, and the first guy had KK, what a weird call from that guy i'm raising KK there preflop 100% of the time.
A spade hit the river and ouch, but i ended up cashing the tournament anyway, short stack ninja!