What's The Proper Play Here?
Started by Diboss, May 11 2005 07:13 PM
8 replies to this topic
#1
Posted 11 May 2005 - 07:13 PM
$2/$4NL Hero ($400) MP2 ($375) LP2 ($450) Hero is button with A Q 2 fold, MP1 calls $4, MP2 calls $4, 1 fold, LP2 calls $4, 1 fold, Hero raises to $25, SB folds, BB folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls $21, LP2 calls $21. A
9
6
(3 players, $85) MP1 checks, LP2 checks, Hero bets $40, MP2 calls, LP2 calls T
($205) MP2 checks, LP2 checks, Hero checks 2
($205) MP2 bets $100, LP2 folds, Hero does ? Now here is read info on the MP2: MP2 is a semi-loose calling station, but he is willing to bluff and chase occasionally.
#2
Posted 11 May 2005 - 07:20 PM
Just call.I think he put you on a continuation bet on the flop, and since you checked the turn (gotta explain that one to me) getting 3 to 1 on your money with top pair second best kicker, I'd make this call. I'd also have bet the turn however.He could have (legitamately) A busted flush draw, a medium pair, K10 (doubtful) and a couple other things. He could also have a pair of deuces for a set or blah blah blah.I'd call
Last night I stayed up late playing poker with Tarot cards. I got a full house and four people died.
#3
Posted 11 May 2005 - 07:21 PM
You should bet more on the flop, maybe $75. It's already a large pot so you should be happy to take it down here, and a large bet will make it harder for draws to stick around. You should also bet the turn. It is hard to know what to do on the river since you didn't bet the turn. You're probably good because it doesn't look like the bettor wants a call, but you would know better where you stand if you had bet the turn.
#4
Posted 11 May 2005 - 07:31 PM
Checking the turn is definitely too passive, but from what I knew of those players, I'd have to bet at least the pot to get them to consider folding anything they called with on the flop. The flush draw would definitely not fold, which is what I put LP2 on when he folded on the river.
#5
Posted 11 May 2005 - 07:45 PM
Bet the turn. Call the river. I'd say he's buying a pot after you showed weakness on the turn. As was mentioned before, he prolly put you on a continuation; by checking the turn, you show enough weakness for him to pounce. But there are too many hands that could have you beat for you to raise, so just call.
#6
Posted 11 May 2005 - 07:52 PM
Is that a standard size raise preflop?Anyway, like others have said, I would bet around the size of the pot on the flop(3/4 to 1) and continue to bet on the turn and river. You gave a free card to Ax, Tx, and
.
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#7
Posted 12 May 2005 - 04:20 AM
I definately wouldn't have checked the turn, but I wasn't there.I think you have to call that river bet. Highly unlikely that the 2 helped their hand (ace 2 maybe, but that would be a very loose pre-flop call and flop call). :wink:
#8
Posted 12 May 2005 - 05:52 AM
wrto, the pre-flop raise was fine. after his call, the pot would be $24, and he made a $21 raise, so it was a good pot-sized pre-flop raise.to the OP:i agree with the others, the flop bet was a little weak. i wouldn't bet pot-sized--your hand isn't strong enough for that, IMHO, and i really have a pet peeve about constantly betting pot (you screw yourself for future streets if you get action in return, since you've made the pot way big, etc.)--but i would bet something like 2/3 - 3/4 of the pot on the flop, maybe around $55-$60.that said, if you had a stronger hand (TPGK isn't strong enough), i would like the weak flop bet ($40) if you intended to raise the turn or reraise a checkraise aggressively. however, you clearly can't reraise a checkraise and a stop-and-go on the turn would make your head spin with just TPGK, so i don't like the weak flop bet.i also agree with others in saying the turn check was terrible.classic myth mistake: don't play for the current pot, play for the correct move. if you check, you give a free card to the flush draw. granted if it hits, you would have lost the pot (and more money) anyway had you bet and he called. that's NOT the important part, though.if you bet something like 2/3-3/4 of the pot again, you give him something like 2.5-to-1 pot odds or worse. consider what you would do in that situation. if you call, your EV is negative (you will hit your flush 1 in 5.5 times). how?let's say the pot is $100, and i bet $75. if you call, you put forward $75 hoping to win $175. when you hit your flush 1 time out of 5.5 times, you win $175, but the other 4.5 times, you lose $75 each time. so your total EV = $175 - 4.5($75) = -$162.5. that means that everytime you make that call with bad pot odds, you lose money. where does that money go? into the pot.so if you bet enough to protect your hand on the turn, you WANT the flush draw to call. since it's -EV for him, it's +EV for you since you're winning that pot the majority of the time. forget about the short term--even if it hits and you lose money, so what--you want him making that call everytime because in the long run, that's your money.however, he might also fold (though you said this was unlikely). that's also fine with you, since you earn a nice pot with no risk! so, you should bet on the turn, since you're okay with both a call and a fold. that's called protecting your hand--it's a very important concept.do you understand now why the turn check was terrible?finally, the river would be a LOT easier to play correctly had you bet on the turn. remember, when you bet or raise, you also get valuable information--that's one of the key functions of both. by checking, you got no information. if you had bet and again got two calls, you can reasonably put them on draws, or maybe middle pair or the like if they're stubborn. if you bet and got checkraised, you have more information now and can make a better move--fold if they checkraise rarely and always have the goods when they do, call if they're chronic bluffers, or reraise if you have a strong enough hand (not this case).with no information and the weak river bet (giving you 3-to-1 odds), i would make the call. the stop-and-go is very weird, but again, betting the turn would have made the river much easier for you.hope this helps. keep posting hands and getting criticism and you'll improve your game.aseem
Diboss said:
from what I knew of those players, I'd have to bet at least the pot to get them to consider folding anything they called with on the flop. The flush draw would definitely not fold
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#9
Posted 12 May 2005 - 01:01 PM
Thanks akishore, that was an amazing reply. Normally I'd probably be posting on how I'd bet the size of the pot again on the turn to boot out the flush draw, but after a few bad beats lately I had been starting to get timid. Thanks for helping me regain my aggressiveness :-)
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