106 replies to this topic

[greatwhite]

Discuss.

[loogie]

What?

[TommyGavin81]

loogie, on Friday, August 8th, 2008, 4:09 PM, said:

WHAT!?!?

[Sal Paradise]

OKAY!

[crowTrobot]

http://www.fullconta...showtopic=78990

[speedz99]

Sal Paradise, on Friday, August 8th, 2008, 2:26 PM, said:

OKAY!

Don't you like popsicles?

[HollywoodAFD]

greatwhite, on Friday, August 8th, 2008, 2:24 PM, said:

Discuss.

No.. they aren't

[davezz5]

Yes.

[HollywoodAFD]

Well... there ya have it. Conclusive 1 fer1 agin

[Balloon guy]

There's a lot of data that points to certain medicines that induce many of these NDE and these medicines are common in trauma cases.So I would say that if they are true, they are for the individual, not for public proof.

[crowTrobot]

Balloon guy, on Tuesday, August 12th, 2008, 7:47 PM, said:

There's a lot of data that points to certain medicines that induce many of these NDE and these medicines are common in trauma cases.So I would say that if they are true, they are for the individual, not for public proof.

how is a traumatized individual supposed to reliably distinguish between truth and psychosis without "public" proof?

[Balloon guy]

crowTrobot, on Tuesday, August 12th, 2008, 8:41 PM, said:

how is a traumatized individual supposed to reliably distinguish between truth and psychosis without "public" proof?

Maybe I explained it bad, or come from a different perspective.I meant even if they did die and have an afterlife experience, it isn't relative to anyone but themselves, ie not for the public.

[SlapStick]

crowTrobot, on Saturday, August 9th, 2008, 2:13 AM, said:

http://www.fullconta...showtopic=78990

http://www.fullconta...howtopic=126798

[crowTrobot]

Balloon guy, on Tuesday, August 12th, 2008, 9:55 PM, said:

I meant even if they did die and have an afterlife experience, it isn't relative to anyone but themselves, ie not for the public.

there's nothing relative about it at all. NDE's are either factual experiences indicating there is an afterlife that everyone is subject to or they are the result of psychosis, and the only way to differentiate is to use objective science. certainly a traumatized individual has no way to differentiate without public (objective) help. same goes for any internal revelation of what is external reality. since it's an obvious fact that the mind/emotions can paint misleading pictures of external reality, without external public help an individual has no way to know if he's fooling himself or not.also kind of makes faith in general pointless.

[Balloon guy]

crowTrobot, on Wednesday, August 13th, 2008, 12:05 AM, said:

also kind of makes faith in general pointless.

Pretty sure that there isn't anything in the known world that you can try to use to make this claim.It's kind of an obsession

[Balloon guy]

crowTrobot, on Wednesday, August 13th, 2008, 12:05 AM, said:

there's nothing relative about it at all. NDE's are either factual experiences indicating there is an afterlife that everyone is subject to or they are the result of psychosis, and the only way to differentiate is to use objective science. certainly a traumatized individual has no way to differentiate without public (objective) help. same goes for any internal revelation of what is external reality. since it's an obvious fact that the mind/emotions can paint misleading pictures of external reality, without external public help an individual has no way to know if he's fooling himself or not.

Sometimes I think you are pulling our legs. You want to use science to determine whether or not someone had a personal experience? You might as well make the claim that all truth will have to pass through you before it can be truth.I'll let you in on a secret, we don't care if somethings happen that we can't explain, makes life kind of fun. We don't have to worry that the whole world will think less of us for not really knowing something. And when I say 'we' I mean the rest of the world, not just Christians.

Quote

certainly a traumatized individual has no way to differentiate without public (objective) help.

LOL, of course, why can anyone think they can know what happened to them, without the help of modern science to tell them what it was.

[Loismustdie]

crowTrobot, on Wednesday, August 13th, 2008, 12:05 AM, said:

there's nothing relative about it at all. NDE's are either factual experiences indicating there is an afterlife that everyone is subject to or they are the result of psychosis, and the only way to differentiate is to use objective science. certainly a traumatized individual has no way to differentiate without public (objective) help. same goes for any internal revelation of what is external reality. since it's an obvious fact that the mind/emotions can paint misleading pictures of external reality, without external public help an individual has no way to know if he's fooling himself or not.also kind of makes faith in general pointless.

Hi. I am arrogant, but I am fairly certain by reading this post that my arrogance pails in comparison. It's a testament to your faith in yourself.

[crowTrobot]

Balloon guy, on Wednesday, August 13th, 2008, 7:09 AM, said:

Pretty sure that there isn't anything in the known world that you can try to use to make this claim.

i'm not making a claim, i'm stating the obvious. because individuals using strictly internal methods aren't capable of differentiating between truth and delusion, faith is effectively a useless method for an individual to reliably determine what is and isn't objective reality.

[crowTrobot]

Balloon guy, on Wednesday, August 13th, 2008, 7:16 AM, said:

Sometimes I think you are pulling our legs. You want to use science to determine whether or not someone had a personal experience?

no. i want to use science to determine whether personal experiences reflect objective reality or psychosis, since it's the only useful tool we have available to do the job.

Quote

I'll let you in on a secret, we don't care if somethings happen that we can't explain, makes life kind of fun. We don't have to worry that the whole world will think less of us for not really knowing something. And when I say 'we' I mean the rest of the world, not just Christians.

you lost me. what anyone cares about is irrelevant. the truth of NDE's is not a subjective issue, it's a scientific one. finding "fun" or some other personal subjective value in the experience has nothing to do with whether they are objectively real experiences or not.

Quote

LOL, of course, why can anyone think they can know what happened to them, without the help of modern science to tell them what it was.

for practical purposes they can't.

[crowTrobot]

Loismustdie, on Wednesday, August 13th, 2008, 8:24 AM, said:

Hi. I am arrogant, but I am fairly certain by reading this post that my arrogance pails in comparison. It's a testament to your faith in yourself.

what specifically are you disputing and why?