14 replies to this topic

[Comatose_Soul]

This hand was getting some commentary on how I played, so I figured I would open it up here to see what others thought as well -- if you already saw this hand, don't give anything away ;)PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) converterBB ($10.70)UTG ($10.05)Hero ($25.70)MP1 ($25.50)MP2 ($12)MP3 ($26.55)CO ($11.65)Button ($10.40)SB ($36)Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with Qs, Qh. 1 fold.==> This is a pretty standard raise by me, I don't deviate much from 4xBB.Flop: ($4.25) Ts, 3s, 6c (4 players)SB checks, Hero bets $4, MP1 calls $4, Button folds, SB folds.==> I bet the pot, hoping to take it down right there. I get one caller, and start to think of the hands he could be holding. The list I come up with in my head from most likely to least likely was this:JJA10AKs1010K10KJsJ1010999983366KQsQJsQ10Turn: ($12.25) 7h (2 players)Hero checks, MP1 bets $6, MP1 calls $6.==> Ouch. I check to get an idea of where MP1 is at. He bets half-the pot. I think I'm good here and raise. Some have said I should have pushed-in. Some have said I should have folded, some have said I should have called. Thoughts?==> When he calls I'm a little uncertain of what he has. I'm not sure he's on the flush draw at this point. Did he make his straight? Trip 10s all the way?River: ($36.25) 9s (2 players)Hero checks, MP1 bets $8.5 (All-In), Hero calls $8.50.==> I'm pretty sure I'm beat at this point, but the pot is huge and I'm really curious what he has now.Final Pot: $53.25==> How would you have played? What are your thoughts on my play?

[allinbluff35]

i would have raised the villian enough to put him allin on the turn

[Scott3705]

I really like the check raise on the turn with one exception.... DON'T min raise. You really should have put him all in (make it 15 into an 18 pot). You're probably good and watching some one playing A 10 and figuring you missed on the flop. (Called the turn bet cause it was a min raise)With an open ended str8 draw and a flush draw on the flop, you can't be really scared of anyting except a set or 89. Would he call a pot bet with 89 here? Any reads? He might have you beat by the river since he only would need an 8 or having made his flush, but I think you needed to push the turn anyway. I"m assuming since you posted it, he had a str8 or flush though.

[Comatose_Soul]

He had:97o

[Rocketwadster]

Check raise is good there, but it had to be for much more (like pushing him all-in in this case). If he is on a draw, dont make it seem worthwhile (by only doubling the bet on the check-raise). :wink:

[Whatever]

I guess in retrospect your only hope was to raise all-in on the turn.

[Petoria]

allinbluff35 said:

i would have raised the villian enough to put him allin on the turn

Min. raising is the worst/gayest play in NL. It gets very little information, and it gives ppl odds to draw out on you. You've got to lead at that turn.

[cdddc75]

Push the turn and take it down. You wanted to take it down on the flop, then decided to get cute on the turn and got burned for it. Out of position, it seems that lead pushing while you still likely are ahead in the hand is the way to go. Check/pushing probably still gets you beat here, but it's better than check/min raising.Edit: Considering the flush draws and inside straight draws on the flop, you should have also considered overbetting the pot on the flop ($6-$8 ).

[otnemem]

So now do you believe me, Comatose?This was originally posted in Bad Beats.

[Comatose_Soul]

otnemem said:

So now do you believe me, Comatose?This was originally posted in Bad Beats.

Never disputed you bro. You only provided specifics after I had made this post (about being all-in on the turn - think your suggestions were check-raise all-in or lead out betting 3/4ths of the pot.) + I enjoy reading multiple perspectives. Yes most are saying to push all-in on the turn (one way or another,) but some are providing other minor bits of information like:

cdddc75 said:

Edit: Considering the flush draws and inside straight draws on the flop, you should have also considered overbetting the pot on the flop ($6-$8 ).

:-)

[cdddc75]

Happy to help.I'm not exactly a specialist at NL, but I've seen lots of posts where people say they want to take it down on the flop with a pot sized bet.It seems to me that if you REALLY want to take it down, go 2x pot.

[Comatose_Soul]

cdddc75 said:

It seems to me that if you REALLY want to take it down, go 2x pot.

That is one problem with overbetting. Depending on the caliber of player you are playing, they will read an overbet as you wanting them out of the hand (depending on their opinion of your play.) Against the guy in this hand history, I'm pretty sure he would have mucked if I bet out 8$ on the flop. There are other players though that would respond by pushing in over the top -- then its back on me.You can get into the same tricky type of situations with the whole min-raise thing. Everyone keeps talking about how bad a play it is (and I won't argue about this specific scenario - I screwed up,) but if you flop the absolute nuts or hit it on the turn, you can sometimes build the pot using the min-raise.

[allinbluff35]

Petoria said:

allinbluff35 said:

i would have raised the villian enough to put him allin on the turn

Min. raising is the worst/gayest play in NL. It gets very little information, and it gives ppl odds to draw out on you. You've got to lead at that turn.

when did I say I would minimum raise? I didn't like the check on the turn but beings that the HERO CHECKED it i said raise enough on the turn to put the villain allin, but hey you're the pro that can lay down KK in a cash game PF so you're always right

[Rocketwadster]

when did I say I would minimum raise? I didn't like the check on the turn but beings that the HERO CHECKED it i said raise enough on the turn to put the villain allin, but hey you're the pro that can lay down KK in a cash game PF so you're always right[/quote]why the hostility towards Petoria? what she said isn't necessarily saying that your a minimum-raise pussy... :wink:

[otnemem]

cdddc75 said:

Happy to help.I'm not exactly a specialist at NL, but I've seen lots of posts where people say they want to take it down on the flop with a pot sized bet.It seems to me that if you REALLY want to take it down, go 2x pot.

It's not exactly that you want to take it down there, but you want to give your opponent bad odds to chase what ever draw he's on. You shouldn't be mad when an opponent calls a big overbet and sucks out anyway. I know it's easier said than done, but if only we could train our emotions to think purely long term. I wish I were a calculator. Calculators know that everything will work out.