49 replies to this topic

[PrtyPSux]

I see more and more players win by playing many cards very agressively, gus hansen, farha, ivey, ect seem to give the tight pros like ledderer, and helmuth the most trouble. I personaly play solid maybe the top 27 o 30 hands I usually fold hands like KJ or QJ, but once Im in a pot Ill play it hard and it has worked most of the time. I would like to be able to switch gears easier but playing loose just dosnt work for me, I guess Im always scared of the usual higher kicker and stuff like that,,,the only times I win playing loose are when I flop 2 pair or sumthing otherwize I will probably lose the pot. Any advice on how to play loose? more specifically I would like pre-flop strategy like what hands to play when I'm playing loose because I think that might be my biggest problem, I play trouble hands like k8 and if a king comes out i play scared, i guess that if I have a range of hands for loose play I could do better. Also any post flop advice will help. Well thanks for the help.

[Chris Grant]

My style depends on whether I'm playing for cash or if I'm playing for free. With the prospect of money, I'm tighter than when it's nothing to gain or even a modest-pot home game. And if it's simply a computer game (not to be confused with an online game), who cares what cards I get, even if I do fold every now and again.Here's the range I play when I play loose:10-7 (suited or off)9-7 (suited or off): This one seems to be one of Gus's favorite when I see him on TV.10-2 (suited or off): The Doyle Brunson is such a honey-pot that I can never get away from it when playing loose. It's one of those psychological things, I guess. Any pair under 10sJ-anything (as long at it's not a deuce or a three)Q-anything (even if it's a deuce or a three)K-anything (see Q-anything)And, of course, A-anythingBeyond that, it's one of those "feel" kind of things. I kinda have to know my opponent to play loose with anything other than what I just noted.And, of course, this is all pre-flop. Post, Fourth St. and the River might not work out the way I intended and I might end up mucking anyway.All this and I haven't even talked about how my opponents are betting.Hope this helps you out.--Chris

[DiverDown4]

Every sunday me and my buddies get together for, what else, football. During half-time of the Pats games we always play a small $10 tourney for kicks. I used to be an extremely tight player. After a few tourneys i started playing like a clown and betting raising calling with rag hands, backdoor draws and bellybuster straights. The funny thing was, was that I was dominating my friends who are quality players. They would get so pissed when i cracked their jj with 350. I also found that its a lot tougher to play these hands because youre put in tough situations all the time. I then realized that these small games were the best poker experience i could get, mainly because i had to use judgement all the time. We continue to play these games, and since then my game has been elevated. I'm not saying by any means that the way i was playing was a winning play, its not, and i wouldnt suggest playing rags all the time. But you should convince some of your friends to play small tourneys "just for kicks" and try playing anything for a few hours a week, it will make youre game improve quickly. You also said that you were afraid sometimes when you were in with a rag hand. Experience playing these hands will leave you with absolutely no fear of playing any hand. I guarantee you will win more pots by playing agressively with those hands post flop, then you do now, because you will have no fear. Lastly, always remeber, if you take a shot at the pot, and someone plays back at you, you can always fold! The biggest problem players have, especially beginners, is that they cant lay down hands once the bet the flop. Take a shot at the pot with your k6 of the flop comes kq8, you may win the pot, or your going to get played back at and fold. Either way, the experience you have gained from playing small tourneys and playing looselyl will greatly increase youre reading ablity and make you fearless of playing any hand.

[JimmyWellington]

Chris Grant said:

Here's the range I play when I play loose:10-7 (suited or off)9-7 (suited or off): This one seems to be one of Gus's favorite when I see him on TV.10-2 (suited or off): The Doyle Brunson is such a honey-pot that I can never get away from it when playing loose. It's one of those psychological things, I guess. Any pair under 10sJ-anything (as long at it's not a deuce or a three)Q-anything (even if it's a deuce or a three)K-anything (see Q-anything)And, of course, A-anything--Chris

There's loose and there's LOOSE. I think you're towards the latter. I don't see how playing all those hands can possibly be profitable.

[KKsuited]

I don't mean to be a jerk, but Chris that is some of the worse poker advice I've ever seen. It's really not to shocking considering you seperated you cash game strategy from your "free" strategy.I have 2 pieces of advice for everyone on the board:1) Never take advice from someone who plays freerolls. People who take time to play those have probably no idea what they are talking about.2) The above advice totaly misses the boat on how to play loose. I would suggest checking out Supersystem for further detail.No pro would advise playing big-little hands (K,3 J,4, etc.) like the above insane poster. Playing loose like Gus is really more about outplaying the other player than what your cards are. Sure a few times on the WPT, Gus hit a str8 with his 7,10o but I doubt he plays that hand trying to hit a str8 everytime.The key to playing loose is being a great player on the flop. I think Daniel has written articles about playing another playings discarded cards, but because he played so well after the flop, he can break even.

[JFarrell20]

Playing loose would be when you call with two suited cards between ace and 5 (in position of course. You cannot play loose out of position!!!) I'm talking on the button... nobody's raised and the SB and BB are tight. The goal here is to catch a straight or flush and bust someone with high pocket pair or two pairs... etc. 3 5 of diamonds has great implied odds when in position. Say the flop comes Ad - 2d - 5c. Well you've flopped a pair, a flush draw, and a straight draw. Lets say even better A 2 4. I know its rare but that ace on the board will definitely pay you off! Think about it, somebody hit an ace... you should have fun breaking them. lol. That guy who said Doyle would never play J2 or Q3 etc... he's right. These are terrible hands. hi/lo cards. Lets say you got Q3. flop comes 3 6 10. ok you've got 3's with a good kicker but someones got 6's or 10's. lol. on the other hand lets say flop comes 5 Q 10. you've got queens with a shytty kicker. or worse... 5 Q A. You get the point. Only play low cards if they are suited or can fill out a straight ie: 2-5 of spades.. etc.

[BigEasy6]

The best reason for playing a little loose is so your big hands get paid off. If you play very few hands, you won't get paid off when you finally do play. Like the last post mentioned, you don't play insanely loose though. You play some loose hands every once in awhile and only when in position and you feel as if you have a good handle on the other player's tendencies. To help a loose style, you may want to show a few hands. Show your really big hands and show to give the appearance that you only bet with big cards and only when they hit. It may take some time and patience to set this up, but if the players are at all observant, they will pick up on your big cards and when you bet. Once you have that set up, you can start playing loose and bet and act just like you did with your big hands. It takes guts to play loose. It also takes instincts. If you listen to those instincts and make the plays that make sense and have the courage to actually make a play, then play loose. Do NOT play loose unless you really feel on top of your game. Playing loose and playing tight is the difference between playing no limit and playing limit poker...to me at least.

[JimmyWellington]

Good post. It's all about changing it up so you don't become too predictable. Playing loose can help you out sometimes, just as long as you're not playing Paris Hilton loose.

BigEasy6 said:

The best reason for playing a little loose is so your big hands get paid off. If you play very few hands, you won't get paid off when you finally do play. Like the last post mentioned, you don't play insanely loose though. You play some loose hands every once in awhile and only when in position and you feel as if you have a good handle on the other player's tendencies. To help a loose style, you may want to show a few hands. Show your really big hands and show to give the appearance that you only bet with big cards and only when they hit. It may take some time and patience to set this up, but if the players are at all observant, they will pick up on your big cards and when you bet. Once you have that set up, you can start playing loose and bet and act just like you did with your big hands. It takes guts to play loose. It also takes instincts. If you listen to those instincts and make the plays that make sense and have the courage to actually make a play, then play loose. Do NOT play loose unless you really feel on top of your game. Playing loose and playing tight is the difference between playing no limit and playing limit poker...to me at least.

[copernicus]

JimmyWellington said:

Good post. It's all about changing it up so you don't become too predictable. Playing loose can help you out sometimes, just as long as you're not playing Paris Hilton loose.

BigEasy6 said:

The best reason for playing a little loose is so your big hands get paid off. If you play very few hands, you won't get paid off when you finally do play. Like the last post mentioned, you don't play insanely loose though. You play some loose hands every once in awhile and only when in position and you feel as if you have a good handle on the other player's tendencies. To help a loose style, you may want to show a few hands. Show your really big hands and show to give the appearance that you only bet with big cards and only when they hit. It may take some time and patience to set this up, but if the players are at all observant, they will pick up on your big cards and when you bet. Once you have that set up, you can start playing loose and bet and act just like you did with your big hands. It takes guts to play loose. It also takes instincts. If you listen to those instincts and make the plays that make sense and have the courage to actually make a play, then play loose. Do NOT play loose unless you really feel on top of your game. Playing loose and playing tight is the difference between playing no limit and playing limit poker...to me at least.

In Daniel's blog on the last tournament he mentions that if he writes his book he will explain why the Gus Hansens arent as crazy as they look. In addition to the previously mentioned reasons to play loose (to disguise hands "made" pre-flop and get paid for them and to pick up a lot of small pots) remember that connected suiters will catch some piece of the flop 40% of the time or so, and the chances that the flop hit the typical tight high card player are reduced. The key is strong post flop play with the risky hands that do hit...small top pair, middle pair etc. Position and a good read on your opponents are essential. Changing speeds is also critical as mentioned above. While it seems like Gus, Daniel and other "loose players" always make it to the final table, you don't see all the tourneys they leave early from. They are willing to go out early to build a big stack late, when its needed to have a shot at the big money.

[jayboogie]

you need to play aggressive and probably a bit looser, take some chances if you want to get a chip stack and contend for the win. If you just wait for premium hands to play, you'll most likely not be in contention. As you can see the tight players rarely win the big tournaments anymore, tight players just rely a whole lot more on luck than a looser aggressive player. If your a tight player and you don't get hands, your pretty much doomed. A looser player can play marginal hands and hopefully hit and make it pay off. The advantages of someone like Gus Hansen playing those hands is you'll see him raising with those junk hands, so when he has a legitimate hand, often times you don't give him credit for it. He is capable of playing anything, so it's hard to know what piece of the flop Gus hits when it comes out A 4 6. That is the advantage that Gus has in playing the hands he plays, he gets lucky once in a while, but he is a great hand reader and knows when to throw his hand away most of the time. That's not to knock tight players, as they have their advantages as well, for instance, they will be able to make a player lay down a good hand, because they appear to only play good cards, which means they can use this to their advantage and steal blinds and pots.

[JustinHEMI04]

JimmyWellington said:

Chris Grant said:

Here's the range I play when I play loose:10-7 (suited or off)9-7 (suited or off): This one seems to be one of Gus's favorite when I see him on TV.10-2 (suited or off): The Doyle Brunson is such a honey-pot that I can never get away from it when playing loose. It's one of those psychological things, I guess. Any pair under 10sJ-anything (as long at it's not a deuce or a three)Q-anything (even if it's a deuce or a three)K-anything (see Q-anything)And, of course, A-anything--Chris

There's loose and there's LOOSE. I think you're towards the latter. I don't see how playing all those hands can possibly be profitable.

I agree. These are the kinds of people that play anything and ruin the game. They really have no idea. They think calling a 30 dollar raise with K4 suited is a smart move and get pissed off when their pair of kings is out kicked. Or call you to the river with 83os with a 3KQJ on the board catch an 8 on the river and bust your AAs. Fortunately though, they eventually bust out and move onto other things in life like knitting or crime since they lost all of their money playing "loose" like this. This isn't the meaning of "loose."Justin

[Smasharoo]

What Hansen and Farha do has nothing at all to do with people who play too many hands up front in NL.They have a deep understanding of situational equities and game theory and they play very well postflop. Hansen in particular has a deep understanding of fold equity and overlay when making seemingly nonsensical plays with bad cards.I'd be willing to bet that in the early stages of tournaments where blinds are tiny relative to stack sizes and the other players are largely unkown the games of Hansen and Farha seem very tight indeed. As the players become more known and the blinds become relatively more valuable they realize this and make plays according to the situational dynamics. As the overlay in terms of money in the pot and gap between stack sizes increases it becomes more and more correct to call an all in with 79o. People who play this way in normal stacked cash games go broke.

[JustinHEMI04]

Smasharoo said:

What Hansen and Farha do has nothing at all to do with people who play too many hands up front in NL.They have a deep understanding of situational equities and game theory and they play very well postflop.  Hansen in particular has a deep understanding of fold equity and overlay when making seemingly nonsensical plays with bad cards.I'd be willing to bet that in the early stages of tournaments where blinds are tiny relative to stack sizes and the other players are largely unkown the games of Hansen and Farha seem very tight indeed.  As the players become more known and the blinds become relatively more valuable they realize this and make plays according to the situational dynamics.  As the overlay in terms of money in the pot and gap between stack sizes increases it becomes more and more correct to call an all in with 79o.  People who play this way in normal stacked cash games go broke.

Well said and absolutely true. Justin

[PrtyPSux]

My style depends on whether I'm playing for cash or if I'm playing for free. With the prospect of money, I'm tighter than when it's nothing to gain or even a modest-pot home game.
And if it's simply a computer game (not to be confused with an online game), who cares what cards I get, even if I do fold every now and again.
Here's the range I play when I play loose:
10-7 (suited or off)
9-7 (suited or off): This one seems to be one of Gus's favorite when I see him on TV.
10-2 (suited or off): The Doyle Brunson is such a honey-pot that I can never get away from it when playing loose. It's one of those psychological things, I guess.
Any pair under 10s
J-anything (as long at it's not a deuce or a three)
Q-anything (even if it's a deuce or a three)
K-anything (see Q-anything)
And, of course, A-anything
Beyond that, it's one of those "feel" kind of things. I kinda have to know my opponent to play loose with anything other than what I just noted.
And, of course, this is all pre-flop. Post, Fourth St. and the River might not work out the way I intended and I might end up mucking anyway.
All this and I haven't even talked about how my opponents are betting.
Hope this helps you out.
--Chris

Thanks Chris.

[Sheiky]

You used to be a nit?!

[simo_8ball]

Farha

deep understanding of situational equities and game theory and they play very well postflop

BAHAHAHAHAHA

[TravisG]

BAHAHAHAHAHA

"OK, lets gambool"
*calls all-in preflop with K7*

[Tehtoe]

Pretty sure JC owes all of his success to Chris.

[thecartel]

I see more and more players win by playing many cards very agressively, gus hansen, farha, ivey, ect seem to give the tight pros like ledderer, and helmuth the most trouble. I personaly play solid maybe the top 27 o 30 hands I usually fold hands like KJ or QJ, but once Im in a pot Ill play it hard and it has worked most of the time. I would like to be able to switch gears easier but playing loose just dosnt work for me, I guess Im always scared of the usual higher kicker and stuff like that,,,the only times I win playing loose are when I flop 2 pair or sumthing otherwize I will probably lose the pot. Any advice on how to play loose? more specifically I would like pre-flop strategy like what hands to play when I'm playing loose because I think that might be my biggest problem, I play trouble hands like k8 and if a king comes out i play scared, i guess that if I have a range of hands for loose play I could do better. Also any post flop advice will help. Well thanks for the help.

The key to aggressive poker is having no fear. The nature of the game means that most of the time in heads up pots both players will have missed. If you are the aggressor you will often win the post without too much effort. Basically you have to have the guts to put in money when you don't have a hand. You don't have to get crazy playing junk, but adding aggression to you game is going to make a huge difference in your winrate.

[Tehtoe]

The key to aggressive poker is having no fear. The nature of the game means that most of the time in heads up pots both players will have missed. If you are the aggressor you will often win the post without too much effort. Basically you have to have the guts to put in money when you don't have a hand. You don't have to get crazy playing junk, but adding aggression to you game is going to make a huge difference in your winrate.

Should we tell him?