30 replies to this topic

[PrtyPSux]

I couldnt help but notice the frustration of a lot of the pros in 04 wsop main event, what do you guys think about the future of this event. Poker has become so huge that 10k is prbly not enough to keep people out, I think that if something is not done the event will start to suffer. I'm a huge soccer fan and so are all of my friends, we all got a package to go to Germany for the world cup 2006, the trip is worth 7k and every one said they would save up and definately go.... that is until I mentioned that in 06 is when we all turn 21 and for 3k more u can participate in such an event.. well everyone got the face you get when you're put all-in preflop w/ jacks. I'm not saying that they are all going but I am saying that a true fan of poker will jump at the opportunity to play w/ the legends if they can spare 10k and sooner or later the tournament will become more luck than skill. what do guys think?

[srharris22]

I believe that the wsop is going to, if not already has, become a lottery. It is true that most tournaments take a lot of skill with some good luck to win a few races and a few underdog hands as well as to not lose too much on those bad beats. But when a tournament has over 2000 players, I believe that luck is starting to take over, although the people around the final table were not exactly brand new to poker. You did not see anyone winning the championship tournament that had only been playing for 3-6 months like one of the other earlier wsop events.One thing that will keep the field so high are the number of poker websites using wsop seats as bait for new players. But eventually I think that they will need to increase the buy-in to 25000 like the WPT championship tournament. well that is just what i think.stephen

[TheIceman05]

Calling it a "lottery" is going a little too far. No matter what anyone says, the final table at this year's WSOP was made up some some very fine players playing some very fine poker. David Williams is an absolute superstar. Josh Arieh's been a force in the poker world for some time. Greg Raymer was definitely no slouch before the event, either. And this is without mentioning Dan Harrington, etc.Yeah, being the best player's not good enough to guarantee victory, but that's never been the case in poker. I know it's a little cliche already, but think about what Marcel Luske and Dan Harrington accomplished in 03 and 04... that absolutely PROVES that there's still much much more skill involved than luck.Look, the Main Event is just NEVER going back to the way it was when Stuey Ungar could dominate wire to wire. Yeah, it sucks a little bit that the chances of seeing an all-star final table are shrinking every year, but won't that just make it all the more AMAZING if we do get the chance to see John Juanda, Phil Ivey, Howard Lederer, and Daniel Negreanu battle it out for poker's ultimate title?Let me know what y'all thinkIce

[johngbrown66]

Ice, I think your right. Sure there are alot of players but the strong will survive, the top pros probably wont even make the final table without alot of luck, however the top tournament pros will still be there. I believe yes there is a difference between a Pro cash game player and a Pro Tournament player. Dan Harrington is the best example a Gentleman who is not overly aggresive, does not move all in every other hand. For Mr Harrington to make the final table as many times as he has goes to show you there is alot more skill and patience than luck involved.

[PokerFan]

Yeah I get tired of Pro players like Annie Duke that say you will never see a "Pro" win this (WSOP 10K) tourney again...Annie??? So what. I'm of the belief the bigger the field the more Pros have a chance. What happen to Varkony (sp) the champ before Moneymaker?..This nobody went thru a small field to win. I think you will see the good players adjusting their game and do well in the next/future WSOP tourneys.

[PrtyPSux]

I think that its walking a fine line between a world series and a circus I dont think that the poker sites giving free seats has anything to do with it because after all you have to win a tourney to get in, I also dont think that the hollywood stars should get out, some are decent players. What I do disagree with are all the commercials on tv right now inviting the average kid that can scrape up 10k to go play. Yes ,, right now it might not look so bad but think 2 or 3 years from now when there are 10 thousand entries.,,, what then??? The world series will just become a joke if they dont raise the buy in or if they make the entry by qualification only.

[Jamestl]

The pros like the tournament growing like it is. I read in another thread how it's better for them because there is so much more dead money and although it requires a bit more luck and patience, the pay off is far worth it.

[Patman]

I think its safe to say the poker craze is starting to die out somewhat. This upcoming 2005 WSOP will still be bigger than 2004, but I wouldnt expect the trend of entrants to continue growing exponentially as it has been. My guess would be around 3,500 entrants or so this year, and my guess is that would be the highest ever (it would start to drop back down around 2006). But hey, what do I know?

[johngbrown66]

Patman said:

I think its safe to say the poker craze is starting to die out somewhat. This upcoming 2005 WSOP will still be bigger than 2004, but I wouldnt expect the trend of entrants to continue growing exponentially as it has been. My guess would be around 3,500 entrants or so this year, and my guess is that would be the highest ever (it would start to drop back down around 2006). But hey, what do I know?

What leads you to believe its over?? I know out here in Los Angeles I still run into people that are in the Casino for there time every time i go.I was just curious as to why you say this?Thanks

[Vegas King]

There will be over 6,000 players in this years WSOP. I think I heard the cap was 6,600. The $10K must be raised. Having 6,000 players is just too big. Since this is the premier event and there is already a 25K event, I would make the buyin $50,000 in 2006. You can still have satillites and such and it would still get a good showing I bet. Anything over 1,000 players gets ridiculous. 9 days for one event is ridiculous. Skill is still important today, but some of the ridiculous plays I saw last year may be reduced for 5 times the buy in. Not that I am a fan of a pro winning every year, but I like to watch solid poker not silly poker.

[banker2005]

I believe that a $25,000 buy-in would be good, it might make the dead money players think a little more about going all in on the first hand with JTs, but the pros should be able to do well there even if there are large fields, Dan Harrington is a perfect example.

[pgsihsxc123]

I don't think that making the main event a 25k buy in would change much. Most of the dead money people win their seats through online tournaments or satellites. Making the change to 25k wouldn't deter those people from entering the tournament.

[Mandelbrot]

$25k buy-in would be better for the players, but I'm not sure it would be better for Harrah's who runs it now...

[CrAcKeDaCeS]

Hey, I'm new to the board, but I really wanted to jump in on this topic:Has anyone seen the poker shown on GSN (Game Show Network?) It's called Poker Royale and it's for WPPA members only (World Poker Players Assosciation). I'm not a huge fan of the layout of the show, but it did get me thinking about how the pro's must feel about having to compete against so many unknowns. I'm sure it has taken about 10 years off of poor Phil Hellmuth's life, everytime some untested amateur outdraws him. That being said, I'm sure the WSOP will make the necessary changes. I think in the future, you might see a lower cap on the # of players, or a higher buy in to deter some of the dead money. Maybe this "craze," or "fad," or whatever you want to call it will soon die out, and the pool of players will rapidly decrease...but I honestly think that there is a whole generation of people out there who really want to see if they can make it in the poker world. Sorry for the length of the post, I just wanted to throw in my 2 cents. See you at the tables.

[Rex4334]

Along the lines everyone else is thinking, i feel its important to think about the "fad" factor of poker, and how it may change over the years. Tons of players both skilled and unskilled alike are playing poker. My point is this, through time i think people who pick up on poker and play it because its on tv and its the new coolest thing will slowly steer away from the game and their busted bankrolls. Left will be the determined and knowledgeable player a d as a result major tournaments like the main event will be more of a skill game than a crap shoot.

[cashinnow]

What is wrong with having this one MONSTER event? It makes a lot of people a lot of money. The players who are fortunate to cash, the T.V. revenue generated, and the amount of money the casinos/hotels make from the influx of players and audiences. This is a once a year event so why not keep it all the same. The pros still have plenty of big money tourneys to play in and to win this huge event could only solidify ones status on the commercial side of poker. I say leave it as it is, it's good for the game!!! Beside how many of us novices go to bed at night thinking about what it would be like to be at the final table of the WSOP? More I would guess that think about the final table of a WPT event!

[Erik67]

Mandelbrot said:

$25k buy-in would be better for the players, but I'm not sure it would be better for Harrah's who runs it now...

BINGO!!!Harrah's doesn't give a rat's ass about the poor wittle pwos who whine about getting sucked out. Harrah's is a business.Larger buy in = less players = less rooms booked, food purchased, and gambling by wives of players = less money = bad business decision.I'm not saying the buy-in will ever go up, but they aren't going to do it to appease the pros.

[NUTTYMATT]

I dont care if a pro never makes it to the final table again. Some pros have such big egos that they think its their event and that no one else should be able to play in the wsop. If pros dont like it they should form their own pro-only wsop.

[AceSpades11]

I think the World Series is the one tournament a year where any average joe can play and beat a field of all the best poker players in the world. This is precisely what makes the tournament so special.Poker is not always about the best player winning, every pro knows that going into the World Series they are going to need a lot of luck to win, but more importantly they have a statistically higher edge of winning over the newbie. Despite how low there chances are of winning, it's still better then the rich guy who is going in for fun. I guess what I'm trying to say is there is a lot of luck on who wins but the pros are still the favourites and the final table is usually going to consist of players that are very good at poker. In addition, I think with this one event this one time a year any poker advocate should have a chance to play with the stars. If you up the buy-in so it is not affordable to these players you take away what the World Series is all about.

[srharris22]

ok, so lottery was going so far. I mean, luske and harrington proved that to a point (esp when some people consider harrington's final table finishes more impressive than chan's last back to back wins, although chan actually went 1, 1, and 2 I believe when he lost to phil the 3rd year). But, one thing i do agree with is that the pros are going to have to change their game. Bluffing just was not as powerful for the pros during the first few rounds of the WSOP esp the first day. They were finding more and more people calling down with either 2nd pair or top pair and low kickers (we all lost to the guy with K2, but hey it was suited right!). I think this is something they were not expecting and will change their game. Obviously I am a huge fan of daniel's and was not happy to see him go out so early, the chance to see him play in one tournament over 6 or so 1 hour tv episodes would have been awesome (even though ESPN's coverage has something to be desired). But FSS helped me get over that with their championship at the plaza tourney, probably my favorite tournament held on tv yet!in the end, I think that the poker community will help decide what is right for the WSOP championship event. I believe that no matter what it should remain 'THE' tournament of the year, but maybe it is just like I think that US OPEN is the 'THE' tournament in golf b/c anyone can qualify and anyone can have the 'chance' to win ( too many '' i think). I think the difficult part is that until now the WSOP was considered to be like all 4 majors in golf wrapped up in one and now you have the WPT coming in and becoming the new MASTERS or BRITISH OPEN. I think the poker community will let this tournament ride for a few years to see what happens with the poker craze, one has to believe that in 2 to 3 years the growth will cap and then an appropriate decision can be made. sorry so long winded , but it is 2:30 am, my dog won't sleep so i am going to play a hold-em tournament.laterstephen