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pot limit five card draw


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#1 akishore

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Posted 11 May 2005 - 12:33 AM

(cross-posted in general)i've started to play this game regularly in a mixed games cash game i play with friends here at MIT.if you've never played it, it's a great game that creates big pots on big hands. it's also very much a bluffing man's game, and my over-aggressiveness often earns me many small pots. deceptiveness is also hugely important in this game.for the most part, i have some theory down. a lot of theory from other games is applicable, like check-calling post-draw if you sense your opponent is on a flush/straight draw, manipulating the size of the pot depending on the equity of your hand, playing your position well and deciding to draw or stand pat based on your position (similar to lowball), things like that.i'm wondering if anyone has any good resources for this game. any links, or articles, or any book recommendations (besides super/system)?i'm planning on reading mike caro's draw section in super/system sometime this summer, but i'm not completely sure if too many concepts will be very applicable, as it seems to be all about limit draw poker, and it also doesn't seem to address the structure we play (no joker, any hand can open, there are blinds instead of antes like lowball, etc.).besides that, there were two hands i played today that i'd like to share to get some feedback on. i want to know if my thinking and logic was right in both hands, and i also want to know if i did anything wrong.both of these hands are three-handed, with two 25c blinds (average stack is around $25ish).hand 1i raise on the button with A :D J :) 10 :D 8 :) 4 :club: to 75c (raise of 50c). both blinds call. pot is $2.25.my reasoning for this raise was both positional as well pot manipulational (is that a word?). by raising here, i had fold equity post-draw if my draw didn't hit, but more importantly, i wanted to increase my implied odds if i hit the flush. by raising here, i allowed myself to bet/raise big post-draw, and if i had just called, i wouldn't have been able to bet/raise too big.small blind draws three, big blind draws three, i draw one (the 4 :D ) and hit the flush with the K :club: . small blind checks, big blind checks, i bet $2. small blind check-raises to $6 (raise of $4), big blind folds, i reraise to $18 (raise of $12). big blind calls.my reasoning for the reraise was that it was rare for him to draw three (signifying a pair) and fill up, so more likely, he improved to trips or two pair, and my flush was good. i also didn't want to raise too much since it was for value.hand 2i'm the small blind with 4 :) 4 :D A :) J :club: 2 :club: . the button raises to 75c (raise of 50c), i call, big blind calls. the pot was $2.25.i had a weak low pair, and i would probably want to play it like i would in hold'em--go for a set. the price was right (implied odds), but when i drew, i decided to keep the A :club: also since pairing the ace might give me the best hand with aces up (in case he was raising with a medium two pair. so i drew J :club: 2 :club: and got 9 :D 9 :club: , the big blind drew three, and the button (the raiser) drew one.i checked, big blind checked, and the button bet $1.50 (i think, maybe $1 or maybe $2). i called, big blind folded.my reasoning for this check-call should be obvious. when the button drew one, he either had two pair, a straight/flush draw, or he was being deceptive with trips. with two pair, my nines up might not be good against something like kings up. a missed straight/flush draw would fold to a bet (and in fact, i might induce a bluff by checking) while a completed draw would raise me, so it was to my advantage to keep the pot small by check-calling so that i wouldn't face too large a bet/raise since i wanted a showdown. i also couldn't beat trips. so, my only hope was that he had a weak two pair, and since that wasn't too likely, i check-called. i also had to take into account the possibility of a check-raise behind me from the big blind, so it was also to my advantage to go for overcalls and information since i was relatively (and absolutely) out of position.let me know if you have any advice for those hands, and if you have any online/book resources.thanks,aseem
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#2 akishore

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Posted 11 May 2005 - 01:12 PM

bump?aseem
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#3 Vade

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Posted 11 May 2005 - 01:15 PM

OMG I just realized I thought this was a lowball gameHah I'm a dumbass sometimes.I haven't played 5-draw for years
Last night I stayed up late playing poker with Tarot cards. I got a full house and four people died.

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Posted 11 May 2005 - 01:47 PM

I like the raise in the first hand for said reasons. Looked pretty much like good play throughout the hand. The second hand can be a bit more tricky. It mostly depends on the skill of the opposition I think. You hit your second pair, but the check/raise is definatly a concern. Check/calling was your best bet here I believe.Good post also.. It's good to see some different hands/stories from different games. Overall I think the play was pretty good in both hands. I too would like to reread the draw section by Caro in SS. Its a great game and can be very profitable against the right opponents :-)

#5 BigDMcGee

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Posted 12 May 2005 - 05:03 PM

When this was in general? I think it got eaten, I'm not sure.. I love Draw, BTW.. number one reason to play on paradise is to play draw.. not pot limit, alas.. pot limit draw, the game of kings

"We are only wise in knowing that we know nothing"
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#6 Wily

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Posted 12 May 2005 - 07:50 PM

Hand 1 :I was big blind. I started with 88XXX, drew three, got 88AAx. Was thinking Aseem had a two pair (and hence only about 1/12 or so chance of filling up) and wanted to extract value from him with my first raise of $4. When he went over the top with $12 more, I think I had to fold, realizing that I was up against a made full house/flush/straight. I was only getting 1:1.2 or so on my call, and I'm probably not good here more than 10 or 20% of the time.I guess what fooled me was that Aseem asked before he raised how many cards I drew, and I told him 3. He then made the raise; I became instantly suspicious of Aseem's potential BS (of which there are high odds). I didn't want to fold and have him throw down a four flush or four straight, since my implied tilt odds (the chance of me tilting from getting pushed off a hand) were great, and so I called :)Speaking of different games - anyone here heard of Mississippi before? It's a pot-limit 7-card stud game, where 4th and 5th streets are dealt face up at the same time, and 7th street is also dealt face up. There is a ton of action, especially when played hi-lo with declare and no qualifier for the low. Probably one of the most complex games to play in a multiway pot also. Our games usually go for complex games like this (in between playing macho), so if anyone has suggestions for fun variants please post.




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