10 replies to this topic

[CobaltBlue]

Cobalt (UTG): 770jamup (UTG+1): 805Niko (UTG+2): 2030Avg. Stack: 1,400Blinds 20/40Cobalt has A:club: J:club: Pre-flop:UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 raises to 80, BB calls, Cobalt calls, UTG+1 callsFlop (4 players) (340 in pot):6 Q 4 :club:Cobalt bets 150, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 goes all-in (raise to 1950)I think my call is justified...but I'd like some opinions.

[Vade]

This call seems fine.You're critically shortstacked, and your opponent is probably making this move with KQ or AQ

[PMJackson21]

CobaltBlue said:

Cobalt (UTG): 770jamup (UTG+1): 805Niko (UTG+2): 2030Avg. Stack: 1,400Blinds 20/40Cobalt has A:club: J:club: Pre-flop:UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 raises to 80, BB calls, Cobalt calls, UTG+1 callsFlop (4 players) (340 in pot):6 Q 4 :club:Cobalt bets 150, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 goes all-in (raise to 1950)I think my call is justified...but I'd like some opinions.

Doing this real quick, so if my math is off I apologize.Ok, let's look at it from a math standpoint - There is 340+150+150+1800 (I assume you mean he called the 150 and raised 1800 more), so there is 2440 in the pot. Since you are shortstacked, he is returned 1260 (1800 minus the 540 you have left), and the pot is 1330 (I believe). So, it is 540 for you to call, with a chance to win 1330, so you are getting better then 2-1 on your call. If you are sure that the UTG+1 player will call as well, then the pot you would be eligible to win would be 1870, so you would be getting over 3-1 on your call. At this point, you can only be sure that your flush draw is alive, because you might be up against AQ so your ace is dead, or a set and your overcards don't matter. So you have 9 outs to your flush, giving you a 36% chance of hitting by the river.Just using the first example and assuming the UTG +1 player folds, your pot odds are 540/(790+540) = .406..You would need to have at least a 41 % chance of winning the hand to justify a call. If all you have is the flush draw, then the math favors a fold, slightly. If you think the UTG+1 player will call, then the odds would be in your favor 540/(790+540+540) = .288, meaning you'd only need a 29% chance to justify a call.From a pure strategy standpoint, I would fold AJ, suited or not suited, UTG. Too often you put yourself in situations like this where you are faced with a tough/marginal call after the flop. Sure, flopping four to the flush is nice, but your opponent did the right thing and bet enough to make a call (in the first scenario where UTG +1 folds) a bad play.If however you think you are not one of the better players in the tournament, then I'd advise a call.Patrick

[PMJackson21]

PMJackson21 said:

Just using the first example and assuming the UTG +1 player folds, your pot odds are 540/(790+540) = .406..You would need to have at least a 41 % chance of winning the hand to justify a call. If all you have is the flush draw, then the math favors a fold, slightly. If you think the UTG+1 player will call, then the odds would be in your favor 540/(790+540+540) = .288, meaning you'd only need a 29% chance to justify a call.Patrick

Ack, I knew I did that too fast. Your correct pot odds are 540/(1330+540) in example 1, and 540/(1870+540) in example 2, so in both scenarios you are correct to call. I was leaving out Cobalt's cost, which has to be included in order to convert the odds into a percentage.Patrick

[CobaltBlue]

Vade said:

This call seems fine.You're critically shortstacked, and your opponent is probably making this move with KQ or AQ

Yup. I actually figured my ace was good. For some reason, I put him on KQ, JJ, or TT. Turns out he had KQos. I missed my flush and ace and busted out. But hey...I had odds.This fact was completely lost on my buddy who was watching me play. He was pissed at me for folding AKos pre-flop earlier in the tourny. After raising, I got re-raised for half my stack. Personally, I don't like putting in half my money early in a tourny when I don't have odds and am likely in a coin flip situation. He berated me for five minutes and told me how pot odds are garbage. I refuse to ever play while he's watching again. It annoys the hell out of me to hear the criticism of a terrible player. Anyone else ever had to deal with someone like this?And, Patrick, I'm not particularly fond of playing the hand from EP either. You'll notice that I just called to avoid getting into anything too deep. If he'd actually made a decent raise (I hate min-raises), I would've gotten out pre-flop.

[holman3rd]

CobaltBlue said:

Cobalt (UTG): 770jamup (UTG+1): 805Niko (UTG+2):  2030Avg. Stack: 1,400Blinds 20/40Cobalt has A:club: J:club:  Pre-flop:UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 raises to 80, BB calls, Cobalt calls, UTG+1 callsFlop (4 players) (340 in pot):6 Q 4 :club:Cobalt bets 150, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 goes all-in (raise to 1950)I think my call is justified...but I'd like some opinions.

I think too much is being read into this. Why bet the flop if you are undecided as to whether you'll call a re-raise? A wide range of hands are going to come over the top of you there given the flush and straight possibilities.Plus, betting and then folding to a re-raise just hurts your already short stack.Push this flop.

[CobaltBlue]

I'd pretty much decided that I would call a re-raise. I was somewhat hoping to buy a turn for cheap...but you feel I should've just gone all-in?

[holman3rd]

CobaltBlue said:

I'd pretty much decided that I would call a re-raise. I was somewhat hoping to buy a turn for cheap...but you feel I should've just gone all-in?

i think it's push or fold. i would have pushed.

[ajs510]

[quote="CobaltBlue"] Anyone else ever had to deal with someone like this?Take his bankroll away from him, he'll shut up about pot odds being garbage. Maybe he'll even read a book...Unless he doesn't play poker, in which case, why are you friends with him? J/K

[Rocketwadster]

I probably would have re-raised back pre-flop, to either win it there, or get it heads-up (so you are not caught in the middle later).After the flop, you are betting around half the pot, which is way to weak in my opinion, which ends up putting you to a tough decision. Put the decision in his hands with your larger bet (doubtful he would have pushed like he did if you bet harder... :wink: