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Jacks Facing River Donk Bet.


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#1 AimHigher

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Posted 26 June 2008 - 12:41 PM

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (6 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

CO ($2.13)
Hero ($10.23)
SB ($9.60)
BB ($9.95)
UTG ($8.83)
MP ($5.36)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J, J.
UTG calls $0.05, 2 folds, Hero raises to $0.2, SB calls $0.18, 1 fold, UTG folds.

Flop: ($0.50) J, Q, 3 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.3, SB calls $0.30.

Turn: ($1.10) 6 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.75, SB calls $0.75.

River: ($2.60) K (2 players)
SB bets $0.5, Hero??

Final Pot: $3.60

I made a ton of little mistakes in my bet sizing on this hand all the way to the river. So sorry in advance for: not raising enough preflop, not betting the flop hard enough, not betting the turn hard enough and generally screwing up my bet sizing totally. icon_doh.gif

Villain is running at 39/0/0.6. I think he kinda sucks.

What's the best line here, Can I raise this river?

#2 SCS

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Posted 26 June 2008 - 12:46 PM

I raise the river and expect to be called by AK, QJ, or KQ a lot. If villain has a hand that beats you he played it horribly.

I think your bet size on the turn is fine, but if villain sucks go ahead and bet more for value.

#3 mtdesmoines

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Posted 26 June 2008 - 12:53 PM

QUOTE (AimHigher @ Thursday, June 26th, 2008, 12:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What's the best line here, Can I raise this river?


If you don't, I may strike you.
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#4 AimHigher

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Posted 26 June 2008 - 12:54 PM

QUOTE (SCS @ Thursday, June 26th, 2008, 9:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I raise the river and expect to be called by AK, QJ, or KQ a lot. If villain has a hand that beats you he played it horribly.

I think your bet size on the turn is fine, but if villain sucks go ahead and bet more for value.


Let's say I make it $3 and he shoves, do I have to stack off?

#5 Stupidhead

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Posted 26 June 2008 - 01:15 PM

Highly unlikely it's A 10, but at micro anythings possible.

The hands that would make sense are 10 9, KQ, KJ, and K3 (bottom pair is the nuts for some).

All of these hands are going to stack off if they were willing to check call the flop and turn, so raise-call shove seems fine here.

#6 Acid_Knight

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Posted 26 June 2008 - 01:28 PM

Based on his AF, I think it's unlikely that he's ever gonna shove the river without a straight, but there are also so many two pair combos where he makes kings up on the river that he might be stupid enough to blindly shove, meaning that it would be kind of hard to fold to a shove.

I guess I make it like $3.50 and cry when he shoves becuase he's probably got a straight and you should fold tongue.gif

#7 Sheiky

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Posted 26 June 2008 - 01:28 PM

Like you said yourself, bet moooore

and raise the river

#8 gobears

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Posted 26 June 2008 - 01:35 PM

QUOTE (AimHigher @ Thursday, June 26th, 2008, 1:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Let's say I make it $3 and he shoves, do I have to stack off?


What do you lose to: A10/109/KK/QQ

What do you beat: 33/66/KQ/KJ/AK/QJ

His stats: 39/0/0.6 (how many hands is that over?)

I think that calling the shove is close - those stats say he is a station and doesn't bet out too often. I would lean towards raise/fold to his shove on the river.
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#9 mtdesmoines

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Posted 26 June 2008 - 01:59 PM

QUOTE (AimHigher @ Thursday, June 26th, 2008, 12:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Villain is running at 39/0/0.6. I think he kinda sucks.


Guys, if I read the stats properly, this villain isn't showing up here with 9T because he doesn't call 4xBB PF from the small blind AND call down his draw often enough for us to sweat it. I honestly think if he hit his hand on the river, he's leading for more than 20% of the pot, too.

I will say that of all the nonsense, poorly played hands that make sense, a set of queens comes to mind. If so, BBFIDTS.

I think we can very safely raise here. If he shoves, we have to call. But this board fell out relatively uncoordinated and there are only two non-straight hands that beat us.
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#10 Sheiky

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Posted 26 June 2008 - 03:03 PM

QUOTE (mtdesmoines @ Thursday, June 26th, 2008, 10:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Guys, if I read the stats properly, this villain isn't showing up here with 9T because he doesn't call 4xBB PF from the small blind AND call down his draw often enough for us to sweat it. I honestly think if he hit his hand on the river, he's leading for more than 20% of the pot, too.


You're not, 39/0 indicates that he calls all the time PF but never raise or re-raises

Though given how extreme his stats are I doubt they're close to the player's true playing style

#11 Naismith

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Posted 26 June 2008 - 03:10 PM

I just get it out of the way and shove on my own. We still lose to the same hands and still beat the same hands and someone who likes to call and not raise is still going to like to call with AK or KT or whatever.
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#12 Dictius

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Posted 26 June 2008 - 04:13 PM

QUOTE (Sheiky @ Friday, June 27th, 2008, 9:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You're not, 39/0 indicates that he calls all the time PF but never raise or re-raises

Though given how extreme his stats are I doubt they're close to the player's true playing style



If his stats are more extreme, won't we need less hands on him to determine if they are real?

eg. If the guy is 100/100 after 10 hands you can be pretty sure he's crazy.

#13 NoBBiR

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Posted 26 June 2008 - 05:09 PM

I raise the river with the intention of getting it in and don't really fret too much if he turns over a straight.
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#14 AimHigher

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Posted 27 June 2008 - 04:06 AM

Results: I flatted (Yes, I suck) and he flipped KT. I thought for about 30 seconds before calling and thought AT and T9 were both in his range, I also thought he could've caught two pair from KJ/KQ on the river and that was why he was waking up on the K. If I'd had the insight to realize AK and KT were in his range I probably would've raised.

Props to Jay for calling his hand. Please don't hit me desmoines.




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