16 replies to this topic

[SCS]

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.10/$0.25
5 players
Converter

Villain (BB) has $25
Hero covers

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is Button with A K
2 folds, Hero raises to $0.85, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: K J 8 ($2.55, 3 players)
SB checks, BB bets $1.5, Hero raises to $4, SB folds, BB raises to $16.05

Our action is?

Villain is a complete unknown. This is the first hand I've ever played against them. The only thing I know is that they are a regular, because they have one of those Iron man medals. So I'm assuming that villain is at least somewhat competent. Also, they're from Finland.

Note - I meant to raise flop to $5, but hit 4 key by mistake when typing my bet size in. I don't think that mattered though.

[tskillz187]

Stack sizes? I think it's kind of close. I tend to fold here because bet/3bet is a very strong hand at $25nl. I expect to see set, KJ, and occasionally QT, 910. The donks at $25nl are too passive or are stations, not usually overly aggro.

[SCS]

Stack sizes? I think it's kind of close. I tend to fold here because bet/3bet is a very strong hand at $25nl. I expect to see set, KJ, and occasionally QT, 910. The donks at $25nl are too passive or are stations, not usually overly aggro.

Weird that stack sizes didn't show up.

Villain bought in full. Effective stack sizes are $25.

[tskillz187]

Yeah I think I fold it here. It's pretty close though with 0 reads. I think if you're raising the flop you should be willing to stack off. Meh. You're basically turning TPTK into a bluff if you aren't willing to stack.

[simo_8ball]

Meh, I probably fold without a read. He has 88 a lot here imo.

[simo_8ball]

I think if you're raising the flop you should be willing to stack off. Meh. You're basically turning TPTK into a bluff if you aren't willing to stack.

I don't necessarily buy this logic, but even if it is sound it doesn't mean that raise/folding is a bad option.

Flat calling this flop is bad with TPTK because villain has a lot of draws and weaker pairs in his range that we give a cheap card to. If we raise he isn't likely to 3-bet us with a worse hands but he will call with a ton of worse hands.

Calling the flop pretty much commits us to a turn call when we have no idea what we are against, and then we will have no idea if he's value betting KQ on the river, bluffing a busted draw, betting a completed draw or value betting 88.

[DonkSlayer]

Unless you have aggrodonk stats that he's mined on you (and you know it), it's a fold. No hand reraises you here than you're ahead of besides another AK.

[tskillz187]

Yeah I don't know how bad raise/folding is either. It's how I play the hand, I just don't know if it's right. Ideally you raise he calls, you bet turn he calls, and then you decide whether to try and go for 3 streets of value.

[Dictius]

I'm in the same boat as Tskillz, I play it the same by raise/folding but I'm not sure it's good.

I think this is the kind of spot I struggle with in general.

I am pretty sure that calling the 3bet from the regular is going to be losing money though. Regulars don't usually b/3b without a big hand or a big draw and there aren't really any big draws on this board.

[mtdesmoines]

Our action is? Villain is a complete unknown.

Fold

[simo_8ball]

I play it the same by raise/folding but I'm not sure it's good.

I am.

There is no other way to play this hand.

[fckthis]

I don't like folding, so I shove

[Temporary Nuts]

Raise more please.

Folding is cool.

edt: just saw you're edit... nm that's what it do

[Acid_Knight]

There are certain spots where raise/folding is gonna be a good line and this is one of them. It's highly unlikely that the villain is ever doing this with a worse made hand once he 3 bets us. The problem is that he will donk a lot of hands into us that are worse made hands and draws, but when he bet/3bets, he's probably always got 2 pair + or a draw of some kind and folding becomes the best move without a read to do otherwise.

I like how you play it if you fold to his 3 bet.

[SCS]

Let's say villain just called the flop raise. What's our plan for future streets?

[simo_8ball]

Pot would be ~$10 or something, we would have $20 left.

Probably bet $8 and call a shove.

[Acid_Knight]

Let's say villain just called the flop raise. What's our plan for future streets?

Pot would be ~$10 or something, we would have $20 left.

Probably bet $8 and call a shove.

Yes.