It Just Doesn't Make Sense.

[donk4life 34]

Background: 6.50 Turbo 6 max on stars, haven't been playing that long, but I've seen the villain bluff before and show it, so I know he's capable.Edit: And I have prior stats on him, 54/30 through 110 hands...Stack Sizes:Hero: 1225Villain: 2290Poker StarsNo Limit Holdem TournamentBlinds: t15/t306 playersConverterPre-flop: (6 players) Hero is Button with 3 folds, Hero raises to t90, SB calls t75 (pot was t135), BB calls t60 (pot was t210).Flop: (t270, 3 players)SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets t120, SB folds, BB calls t120 (pot was t390).Turn: (t510, 2 players)BB checks, Hero bets t240, BB calls t240 (pot was t850).River: (t990, 2 players)BB bets t810, hero???This bet simply does not make sense.. call, call, and then shove when a meaningless deuce falls? Can we honestly make the call here? Note: Also, would you bet the turn here? Normally I wouldn't but I was confident I had the best hand on the turn..

[da_suit 0]

Smells like A2dd to me, I think I'd lay it down, but it could just be a missed flush draw shove.

[TravisG 0]

no reads?

[copernicus 0]

I dont like CBing into 2 villains but thats borderline. Once villain calls the flop, I shut down. He could have anything, because you showed a willingness to bet the flop, but its probably not a big hand or he would have check raised the turn. The real problem is you dont beat anything, and turbo SnGs arent the place for hero calls.

[Ouch-8s 5]

turbo SnGs arent the place for hero calls.

[Sheiky 0]

I dont like CBing into 2 villains but thats borderline. Once villain calls the flop, I shut down. He could have anything, because you showed a willingness to bet the flop, but its probably not a big hand or he would have check raised the turn. The real problem is you dont beat anything, and turbo SnGs arent the place for hero calls.

Agree with this

[pokerinc 0]

painfully bad flop c bet gives you no info, oops you did it again on the turn.Either check behind on the turn or fire harder plz.

[Jam-Fly 8]

Dislike the flop bet and the turn bet.I think it's 50-50 on a call. He could easily have a busted flush draw

[XXEddie 0]

I dont really like the flop and turn bets. But if you are gonna bet into 2 players on a draw heavy board, PUT PRESSURE ON THEM!!! 120 into a 270 pot isnt anything and neither is 240 into the 510 pot.As played, easy fold on river. He turns over 44 here a lot.

[LJB723 0]

Yup, he's slowplayed a monster. Get out while you've done it cheaply.

[Jam-Fly 8]

I dont really like the flop and turn bets. But if you are gonna bet into 2 players on a draw heavy board, PUT PRESSURE ON THEM!!! 120 into a 270 pot isnt anything and neither is 240 into the 510 pot.

I disagree, what hand folds for 200, that doesn't fold for 120? Flush draw calls both I think, and if the A7 is calling, I think it calls both. FWIW, I think a leak in people's games is c-betting too big. Alot of times, the villain is either calling a bet, or is not calling a bet, irrelevant on size.

[copernicus 0]

I disagree, what hand folds for 200, that doesn't fold for 120? Flush draw calls both I think, and if the A7 is calling, I think it calls both. FWIW, I think a leak in people's games is c-betting too big. Alot of times, the villain is either calling a bet, or is not calling a bet, irrelevant on size.

I agree if its one villain, but two calls for a bigger bet if you are going to bet at all. It looks weak and invites the first player to call, and then theres too much chance of the 2d one calling just for the odds. then your fading as much as 12 outs if you arent behind already.

[donk4life 34]

Jam-Fly is exactly right here, it's a 6.50 turbo, and yes some players are competent, but most aren't, I could bet anywhere from 30 to 250 and if the SB had A7 he would hop along here... But the SB folded...As for the turn, I really didn't mean to bet that small, I was looking more in the range of 300-350ish... My mistake, but with the villains stats, and what I can remember from his previous plays, he would not flat with a jack here...... and he certaintly would not shove into me on the river with only a 7... I've come across hundreds of players like him in these turbos... If he had a jack, or even a 7, he would A.) Raise me on the flop or the turn. B.) He would certainly not shove into me on the river when a meaningless deuce falls, he'd want value with a jack, and he'd be scared with a 7..Eddie, A small PP came into mind as well, but once again, I just can't get find a reasonable explanation as to why he'd shove the river with 44, or 66.. The more and more I thought about this I just couldn't put him on a hand that beats mine..

[jmbreslin 0]

Eddie, A small PP came into mind as well, but once again, I just can't get find a reasonable explanation as to why he'd shove the river with 44, or 66.. The more and more I thought about this I just couldn't put him on a hand that beats mine..

There is one very reasonable explanation for shoving the river here (hint: think about your reasoning process).Also, what about Ad2d? Misses his NFD but hits trip 2's on the river, which he knows is going to be well disguised, so he pushes the river for the possible reason hinted at in my first point.

[donk4life 34]

There is one very reasonable explanation for shoving the river here (hint: think about your reasoning process).Also, what about Ad2d? Misses his NFD but hits trip 2's on the river, which he knows is going to be well disguised, so he pushes the river for the possible reason hinted at in my first point.

You're absolutely right, that is a strong possibilty... As a matter of fact that hand didn't go through my thought process until you said it

[Thriceknurd 0]

You're absolutely right, that is a strong possibilty... As a matter of fact that hand didn't go through my thought process until you said it

I read all the posts and I'm not sure if I missed something but, did the OP end up folding or making the call? If so, what did villian have?

[jmbreslin 0]

You're absolutely right, that is a strong possibilty... As a matter of fact that hand didn't go through my thought process until you said it

I think it's one explanation for a big river bet that is often overlooked when people discuss hands in this forum. The common wisdom is that big river bets must be bluffs because any reasonable opponent would want to get value out of a big hand...which is precisely why making a big river bet with a big hand can be very effective.

[donk4life 34]

I read all the posts and I'm not sure if I missed something but, did the OP end up folding or making the call? If so, what did villian have?

I guess this thread really can't have too great of a dicussion because it's ultimately read based.. It really is 50/50 here, I ruled out any jack or 7, he's too agressive to check/call on the flop and turn with a jack, and he's not dumb enough to shove on the river with only a 7... A pocket pair I believe he would play hesistant as well, or he'd lead the flop to see where he's at...If I would have thought of A2d, I definetely would have folded, because I've seen players make those bets hundreds of times before.. I called... Villain showed 56, for a busted open ender...

[Mercury69 3]

Nah, make the fold and live with the fact he made a shitty pair along the way...

[x Swift x 0]

I really don't see the dilemma here, hes either slow playing a set, hes caught the twos with a hand like A2, hes picked up a pair somewhere and thinks you have a busted flush draw or hes got a busted flush draw himself. You can beat one of these and its going to cost you most of your stack to find out which it is so unless you have a read on him just lay it down and try to come back.Also if you bet more on the flop it would be much easier to put him on a hand and might save you the money on the turn or river.

[AimHigher 0]

It's a flesh wound!

[cdipierr 0]

I realize OP called and was rewarded here, but I think this is a leak honestly. I know it's a turbo and all, and AT is a good hand, but after you've missed the entire board, there's really no reason to be overvaluing your A high. It seems to me a lot of questions here lately revolve around "should I make this dramatic call with nothing". The answer in my mind is typically no. In a hand like this where you figure you're maybe 50/50 to get it right, there's no reason to call. Later in the tournament you can always get your money in at worst 50/50, so why the obsession with making the heroic calls? Check behind the turn, fold the river, keep the pot small and play a better hand later.