22 replies to this topic

[AKChadness]

this is about his recent blog, and a video blog i watched tonight. you talk about faith.. and I was wondering if you would call yourself a christian, and what kind of christian?
because I grew up in a prodasent (horrible speller) church and such. How you feel about keeping the faith and being a poker player.. when did you make this choice to be a christian? i've always enjoyed deep talks about faith and God, being christian. its hard to explain how I feel about the subject, i have a attachment and almost need to be talking about it, even though i don't claim to be a christian in this point in my life.. mostly because I see way too many fake christians out there. and If i wanted to be a christian I would have be whole hearted.

either way, hit me back i'm curious

[Sportsmack]

this is about his recent blog, and a video blog i watched tonight. you talk about faith.. and I was wondering if you would call yourself a christian, and what kind of christian?
because I grew up in a prodasent (horrible speller) church and such. How you feel about keeping the faith and being a poker player.. when did you make this choice to be a christian? i've always enjoyed deep talks about faith and God, being christian. its hard to explain how I feel about the subject, i have a attachment and almost need to be talking about it, even though i don't claim to be a christian in this point in my life.. mostly because I see way too many fake christians out there. and If i wanted to be a christian I would have be whole hearted.

either way, hit me back i'm curious

At the risk of sounding preachy, Christians don't follow other Christians...they follow Christ. So the fact that there seem to be too many "fake" Christians in the world, shouldn't deter you from accepting Christ if that's what you feel your heart is telling you.

[Nimue1995]

I like the fact that Daniel does discuss his faith on occasion but unlike Jerry Yang he doesn't push it on people that don't want to hear. I too am a Christian without a home church at the moment. I don't think it's so much that many Christians are fake as they tend to get focused on small stuff at the expense of the bigger picture.

[JustDoIt]

I like the fact that Daniel does discuss his faith on occasion but unlike Jerry Yang he doesn't push it on people that don't want to hear. I too am a Christian without a home church at the moment. I don't think it's so much that many Christians are fake as they tend to get focused on small stuff at the expense of the bigger picture.

Please, tell me when Jerry Yang pushed his faith or religion on other people.

[Metternich]

While Yang wasn't exactly trying to convert anyone, his final table religousity was really abrasive. Thanking Jesus for helping you suck out is a jackass move, I'm sure that Yang wasn't the only Christian at that final table. The whole thing was great example of why people don't like Christians.

Basically, he was vocal about his faith at the worst possible time and in a way which was offensive, especially to the people who were busting out after getting their money in good against a player who they know to be inferior.

[Sportsmack]

While Yang wasn't exactly trying to convert anyone, his final table religousity was really abrasive. Thanking Jesus for helping you suck out is a jackass move, I'm sure that Yang wasn't the only Christian at that final table. The whole thing was great example of why people don't like Christians.

Basically, he was vocal about his faith at the worst possible time and in a way which was offensive, especially to the people who were busting out after getting their money in good against a player who they know to be inferior.

That's a pretty broad brush you're painting with there sir

[Balloon guy]

That's a pretty broad brush you're painting with there sir

He might know everyone in the world..give him the benefit of the doubt

[Nimue1995]

Jerry Yang's expressions of "faith" at the final table were offensive even to those who are Christian. It's one thing to kiss your kid's picture all the time. It's another thing to praise God for being able to knock out your opponent. I see a great number of sports figures give praise to God after the fact of the win. But to do it during the game is at the very least in poor taste. There are many pro poker players who are Christian but you don't see them bringing it to the table.

[JustDoIt]

While Yang wasn't exactly trying to convert anyone, his final table religousity was really abrasive. Thanking Jesus for helping you suck out is a jackass move, I'm sure that Yang wasn't the only Christian at that final table. The whole thing was great example of why people don't like Christians.

Basically, he was vocal about his faith at the worst possible time and in a way which was offensive, especially to the people who were busting out after getting their money in good against a player who they know to be inferior.

What, saying "Lord give me a purpose" is offensive? Come on. We all show our faith in different ways.
I am a Christian and I found nothing offensive in his actions. And I think Jerry's priority's are totally in place.

Now Lee Watkins girl friend saying "Lord make me a believer", don't know about that one.

I also remember early when Jerry powered a guy off pocket QQ. He took a ton of hits, but he won.

[Paul Brevard]

Jerry Yang's expressions of "faith" at the final table were offensive even to those who are Christian. It's one thing to kiss your kid's picture all the time. It's another thing to praise God for being able to knock out your opponent. I see a great number of sports figures give praise to God after the fact of the win. But to do it during the game is at the very least in poor taste. There are many pro poker players who are Christian but you don't see them bringing it to the table.

Is it ok for non-believers to bring their beliefs to the poker table? I never say anything to the guy that shouts God's name in vain on a bad beat but I do see people that are offended if I bow my head silently before an event begins.

How many post are placed here objecting to GD being said that the table?

Just a question. I am not judging but I do find it strange that no one is offended by Phil's Fits. They even laugh at him and place them on the internet. Why do people find it offensive when a guy is excited and thankful to his creator for giving him a free will to make the right calls and the ability to win the tournament? How is that offensive? He's not saying "Thanks for chosing me" he's saying "Thank you!".

I don't believe God choses one over another. The Bible says that he shows no favortism. It does tell us to be thankful and thank him for all our blessings and you have to admit, that was one heck of a blessing!

[AKChadness]

intresting enough, I saw daniel was viewing this topic, then the other god one under it. but no response. your thoughts?

[Paul Brevard]

I have no idea why he didn't respond. Maybe he felt he should pray about his response. Maybe he feels that if he does respond he will start a never ending blog where he has to defend what he should not have to defend. I don't know. All I know is that I am grateful that someone like him has the courage to say that he is a Christian Poker Player. That takes a lot of guts and I should know.

You are so right about fake Christians. There are so many that claim to be a Christian but yet they will judge others for their beliefs, preferences, or whatever. The way I look at it is this. I am not going to jail or hell for anyone. I am way too busy covering myself for the many things that I know I upset God with to look at the guy next to me and judge him for his.

Sure, I see people that annoy me at the table. I hate it when they use God's name over and over because they know it doesn't hold a penalty like the f-bomb. The thing is, when I go to a poker room, I know that I might see anything from a crack adict playing holdem' thinking it's black jack (true story), a sailor blushing at a lady screaming words he never thought existed because he sucked out on her, and I might even see a guy silently bow his head before a tournament. Why is it that people think every thing is acceptable except a prayer? I find that funny! You can do anything you want in this wild old world and crazy town but don't pray at the table! You have to admit that is funny! What are they afraid of? We might be right about there being a God and he might be answering the prayer to keep everyone else card dead? It would be funny if we found out that Jerry put guys on tilt with his prayers and they couldn't concentrate because they were so annoyed. Maybe I should try that. I'll say a little prayer for Aces and when I look at my hand I'll just look up at the ceiling, close my eyes and mumble a little thankyou!

Just a little story. I had been working in a show for a couple of weeks when I saw a very disturbing thing happen. It was a Christian show but we had every kind of individual you could imagine. Atheist, Hindu, Gay, Christian, drug addict, alcoholic, .... anything you could imagine. The Christians would meet in a small room to pray every Wednesday. They would leave the doors open and the guys could here them using their names in prayers. I was friends with everyone in the show. They were saying that they hoped a certain couple of guys would find Christ. I asked my friend if he heard them saying that. He said that he heard it every week and I was the first to ask that. I also asked him if he knew Christ and he said. Yes, but no one ever asked. They just see that I look a little strange and like to read fantasy novels and took if for granted. We became good friends and I never went to the meetings again.

Being a Christian is not just about following Christ but trying to imitate him. I believe that he loves EVERY SINGLE PERSON ON EARTH THE SAME! People may not believe in him, but he believes in them. I also believe that people do terrible things every day that they are judged for and I also know that every time I tell a little white lie it's still a sin no matter how I try to cover it up. I don't think we were called here to preach about Hell and all the bad we do. I believe we are taught to preach the GOOD NEWS that Christ is coming again one day and that he gave us a free will to make a decision to follow or not. It's our choice what we do with it. He doesn't force us to do anything. I think that is wonderful.

It's so late, I may have to edit this in the morning.

[AKChadness]

Paul Brevard

"Being a Christian is not just about following Christ but trying to imitate him. I believe that he loves EVERY SINGLE PERSON ON EARTH THE SAME! People may not believe in him, but he believes in them. I also believe that people do terrible things every day that they are judged for and I also know that every time I tell a little white lie it's still a sin no matter how I try to cover it up. I don't think we were called here to preach about Hell and all the bad we do. I believe we are taught to preach the GOOD NEWS that Christ is coming again one day and that he gave us a free will to make a decision to follow or not. "


see I believe being a christian is to try to be christ-like, however its about your personal relationship with god. fact is, some people need to hear about hell and sins. I think we need conviction from god in order to truely see what we are doing wrong. its when you see what your doing wrong (sin) and then make the choice to not do it, that makes you christian. but then you get in the whole debate over what sin is sin..... the bible can be very strict and then very open to different views so that were all entitled to our own thoughts about the subject. which makes it a personal relationship and with conviction from god that we can be christians. OH well now we're just preaching.

I was just curious about what changed in his life to go from partying to being a christian. Not here to naively talk about the subject of god in a poker forum..
Just curious because i'm in a place near he was "back in the day". or so I think.

P.S. in my opinion.. Its alot harder to be a christian then not. and a poker player christian, well thats a step above. hats off to you gents who make it work. GL daniel/paul.

[Paul Brevard]

fact is, some people need to hear about hell and sins. I think we need conviction from god in order to truely see what we are doing wrong. its when you see what your doing wrong (sin) and then make the choice to not do it, that makes you christian. but then you get in the whole debate over what sin is sin..... the bible can be very strict and then very open to different views so that were all entitled to our own thoughts about the subject. which makes it a personal relationship and with conviction from god that we can be christians. OH well now we're just preaching.

I was just curious about what changed in his life to go from partying to being a christian. Not here to naively talk about the subject of god in a poker forum..
Just curious because i'm in a place near he was "back in the day". or so I think.

Ak, I guess you might be right is some aspects. It's just that I've always looked at being a Christian like this. I hate going into the church and having the preacher say "If you die before you leave here today or get hit by a car when you leave, YOU ARE GOING TO HELL!" It does get across to some people but what kind of Christian does it make? I look at it like this. If you beat a child every day and tell them to be good, most will out of fear. When they get away from you though, they might become wild children because they are finally free!!!!! Now, if you love a child and discipline them when they need it but fill thier life with love, they will most likely be a child that fears hurting you and will be that way towards others and be a good child. Likewise, if you come to Christ out of love you will want to share love and not hurt him. You will want to work for him out of respect and love and not out of fear if you don't. I know some children are hard headed and become rotten kids but that is their free will to do so. That's what's great about being a Christian. He knows that we will fall, but we also know he will be there to pick us up.

The fear of the Lord to me is fear of not dissapointing him. Not fear that he will send you to hell. The whole point of salvation was to spread the good news that through him we do not have to be separated from him. Not that we have to fear separation. Separation from God is hell. He sends no one to hell. We make that decision. He wants us to be with him. If we don't want to be with him or believe in him, that is our free will.

I will say this. As far as the faith I have that Christ did die for our sins and why it had to happen. If someone asked me to die for them, I would. I have been placed that position believe it or not. There is one thing that I could not do though. If I had a child and someone said that the child must die for them to live, I could not let that happen. That is the ulitimate love above all. I guess God wanted to prove his love and said if you believe that I could love you that much then that's all he needed to know. And when Jesus was on the cross there was one person that could have saved him, but she didn't. All that Mary had to do was simply say that it was all a lie. She could have said, "I slept with Joseph before we got married." and they would have let him down but she didn't. I think that a mother's love is a powerful love and the fact that she did not declare that is great eviddence.
I hear people say all the time "I would not believe in a God that would..." The problem is, when you are the creator, you make the rules. We can't say, "I am not 5' 6".... I am not 200 lbs.... I refuse to believe it." The fact is I am no matter what I do. We can't change the rules of the person that created the game of life. Sorry if I'm preaching a little but I just wanted to share that little bit with you and get your oppinion.

Good debate never hurts anyone. It broadens our intelligence.
Thanks AK, and good luck!

[showstopper24]

I like the fact that Daniel does discuss his faith on occasion but unlike Jerry Yang he doesn't push it on people that don't want to hear.

I agree. I'm Jewish and I read Daniel's blog. I am not offended in the slightest about his blogs about God and faith and I read them eagerly. But when I watched the WSOP last year, I was a little uncomfortable with Jerry Yang praying while at the table to win a hand.

[Southern Buddhist]

The issue people had with Yang was that it was implying favoritism, that God wanted Jerry specifically to win and had it in for everyone else at the table. That's the "Mom likes me better!" school of belief, and yeah, it's off-putting to a lot of people, believers and non-believers alike. Asking God to make you a better person and to help you be your best and to show His work in your heart through your behavior -- that's a more mature view of faith, and even most non-believers find it admirable and moving, even inspirational.

Jeff Gordon used to do this in NASCAR. He'd win a race and get out in Victory Lane and say, "I asked God to let me win," or "God wanted me to win today." Now, I don't know ANY NASCAR drivers who aren't Christian -- I mean every last one of 'em is an active, devout believer, and he managed to piss off most of the other drivers with talk like that. That had nothing at all to do with God. That was all about Jeff's ego. Dale Earnhardt believed it was never appropriate to use the media to talk about faith. He knew the bible talks about witnessing, but he was a bigger believer in Matthew 6:1-6:

1Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.

2Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

3But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:

4That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.

5And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

6But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

Earnhardt, who earned $15 to $30 million a year, tithed his income to the church and to charity. He did it quietly, and in fact only ever mentioned it once in an interview, in response to a very specific question, and wouldn't discuss it further. But he gave away tens of millions of dollars in his lifetime in tithing, was a devout, deeply religious Lutheran, and yet Gordon (who had just been saved a year or so before) was standing there saying, "God wanted me to win." Then Gordon dumped his wife, married a supermodel, and it ceased to be an issue.

Point being -- people are touched by hearing about a humble faith, but when you're asking God to give you a suckout, that sucks.

[Southern Buddhist]

If you want more tangible moments of faith in your life, then I challenge you to read the entire bible. I've done it, and it took about a month. I read, in general, one book a night. I split longer books into a couple of nights, but super-short books like the twelve minor prophets could be gotten through three or four a night. It really isn't the huge undertaking that people seem to think it is.

Obviously from my screen name, it didn't take...but that's a different issue.

[DCJ001]

I thought that it was interesting when Kenny Tran told Jerry Yang, "Yo. You cannot pray on the table..."

And then Tran predicted the suckout for Alaei, after Yang prayed at the table.

About 30 seconds into the clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p08CZryMT3I

[Paul Brevard]

Good replies all.

Ak, I hope to meet you in Vegas. You sound like a great player and a person with a great heart.

The reason I posted the other "Prayer blog" was for this reason. Please go to the site and you'll see why it kinda bugs me how Christians are bashed by all sides. All most of us want is to be able to get together and have a silent moment of prayer, not to win, but to thank God for our health, family and friends that that we will accept the outcome of the day, be it good or bad.

This site is what got me going the other day.
http://www.thepokerchronicles.com/archives/2007_04.html

Thanks guys and good luck out there!
Paul

[Sportsmack]

If you want more tangible moments of faith in your life, then I challenge you to read the entire bible. I've done it, and it took about a month. I read, in general, one book a night. I split longer books into a couple of nights, but super-short books like the twelve minor prophets could be gotten through three or four a night. It really isn't the huge undertaking that people seem to think it is.

Obviously from my screen name, it didn't take...but that's a different issue.

A lot of the reason that it probably "didn't take" was because of your heart/attitude about it going in, but that's you're personal decision and one that you have to ultimately have to account for in the life after this one.

Also, there's a HUGE difference in reading the Bible and actually studying the Bible. It sounds as though it was a race for you to see how fast you could get through it, which is why I stated the above about your heart/attitude going in. A monkey could race through the Bible in a month, but most Christians or non-Christians looking for answers usually take time to study and find the answers that they're looking for.

Anyway, God Bless you in your search.