101 replies to this topic

[CaneBrain]

from cnn.com:

If John McCain doesn’t stop changing his position on the issues, he threatens to make John Kerry look like an amateur.

In order for McCain to win in November, he has to appeal to both the traditional Republican base and to independents. Dana Milbank in the Washington Post says it’s a delicate dance, and if McCain’s not careful “he’s liable to break a hip.” Of course any doctor will tell you a broken hip can be very difficult to recover from.

On Iraq, the economy, guns and God, McCain is to the right. On immigration, campaign finance reform and global warming, he’s to the left. It’s all very reminiscent of John Kerry back in 2004.

McCain went after Barack Obama yesterday, for proposing a windfall profits tax on oil companies. A month ago McCain said he was willing to consider a windfall tax on the oil companies.

What about offshore drilling? During his last presidential run, McCain was against it. Now he’s for it, saying the states should decide if they want to drill for oil off the coast. This could cost him big time in states like California and Florida which are extremely environmentally conscious.

Then there are the Bush tax cuts. McCain was against them – twice – but now he’s for them.

McCain has also called for the U.S. detention center at Guantanamo Bay to be closed down and torture banned. But last week he criticized the Supreme Court’s ruling that detainees there should have access to U.S. courts – calling it “one of the worst decisions in the history of this country.”


so is McCain the ultimate position changer? is he just so old he forgets his position on issues? is he just really open-minded?

[LadyGrey]

That article is obviously biased. I don't see any problem with McCain having his own views and being somewhat bipartisan as long as he is open about it with the voters, which he is. They know where he stands, and these days people vote for the candidate more than the party so why criticise the guy for having his own opinions?

As for changing his mind on issues, for one thing the issues mentioned aren't the same, just in the same category e.g. defence. And if new information and research comes to light on an issue then it ought to be re-evaluated. That sounds like a good thing to me.

[loogie]

This is a problem. I own a patent on my flip flop machine, and I bet I don't see one f'ing cent.

[CaneBrain]

That article is obviously biased. I don't see any problem with McCain having his own views and being somewhat bipartisan as long as he is open about it with the voters, which he is. They know where he stands, and these days people vote for the candidate more than the party so why criticise the guy for having his own opinions?

As for changing his mind on issues, for one thing the issues mentioned aren't the same, just in the same category e.g. defence. And if new information and research comes to light on an issue then it ought to be re-evaluated. That sounds like a good thing to me.

I agree with a lot of what you say. However, I think that there are a number of clear issues (off-shore drilling, Bush's tax cuts, oil windfall taxes) where he has clearly flip-flopped. In the case of the windfall tax, he definitely flip-flopped just to take a swipe at Obama (egregious imo).

Personally, I dont mind flip-flopping much if you did it because new info came to light (like say Kerry voting for the Iraq War before he knew the intelligence was faulty). I agree 100% that it is perfectly ok for McCain to be to the right on some issues and to the left on others. That is a plus to me. A lot of the other things in this article are big minuses in terms of my opinion of McCain.

Also, McCain calling the recent Guantanamo Supreme Court Decision "one of the worst decisions in history" is disgusting/pandering of the highest order. There have been so many shameful decisions (letting gov't inter the Japanese after Pearl Harbor, the Dred Scott decision and many others) that his hyperbole on this decision is a huge turn off to me.

[runthemover]

As for changing his mind on issues, for one thing the issues mentioned aren't the same, just in the same category e.g. defence. And if new information and research comes to light on an issue then it ought to be re-evaluated. That sounds like a good thing to me.

The article is stupid because we have no idea if, like you said, he changed his mind on things because of new information or if he's just wishy washy and saying things to appeal to the people to which he's speaking at the time.


I'm more inclined to think he's wishy washy and saying whatever is good at the time he's saying it rather than actually telling us his real thoughts on the issue (he is a politician after all). That's not to say that Obama wouldn't do the same thing because he probably does to some extent. It seems weird that McCain apparently is doing this a lot though.

[LadyGrey]

Also, McCain calling the recent Guantanamo Supreme Court Decision "one of the worst decisions in history" is disgusting/pandering of the highest order. There have been so many shameful decisions (letting gov't inter the Japanese after Pearl Harbor, the Dred Scott decision and many others) that his hyperbole on this decision is a huge turn off to me.

I seem to remember reading an article about that, and it was clear that the quote you mentioned was taken out of context. McCain was a PoW as I am sure you know, I am confident that he is passionate about human rights.

By the way, I like Obama for president, I'm not republican by any stretch of the imagination. But as a politics student I try to look at them neutrally and that's why I seem to be defending McCain strongly in this thread.

[CaneBrain]

I seem to remember reading an article about that, and it was clear that the quote you mentioned was taken out of context. McCain was a PoW as I am sure you know, I am confident that he is passionate about human rights.

By the way, I like Obama for president, I'm not republican by any stretch of the imagination. But as a politics student I try to look at them neutrally and that's why I seem to be defending McCain strongly in this thread.

you are mixing quotes (I think). the quote that was taken out of context was the one about "its not too important when the soldiers come home".

this quote about the supreme court was NOT taken out of context. and i dont assume anyone is one party or another just because they engage in discussion. most of the points you have made are valid....but this article while biased makes important points. And flip flopping is like death in our current political climate (rightly or wrongly)

[Balloon guy]

you are mixing quotes (I think). the quote that was taken out of context was the one about "its not too important when the soldiers come home".

this quote about the supreme court was NOT taken out of context. and i dont assume anyone is one party or another just because they engage in discussion. most of the points you have made are valid....but this article while biased makes important points. And flip flopping is like death in our current political climate (rightly or wrongly)

Which is it? Rightly? or Wrongly?

Pick a side and stick to it man!

[CaneBrain]

Which is it? Rightly? or Wrongly?

Pick a side and stick to it man!

damn you! touche, sir.

i will go with wrongly. there are worse things than changing your mind on something.

[BigDMcGee]

I don't see why having an evolving political platform and having an open mind is considered such an ill. I don't know why making your mind up early, and sticking to that position in the face of all evidence or opposition is considered such a virtue. You know who didn't flip flop ever? Joesph McCarthy.

[HollywoodAFD]

I don't see why having an evolving political platform and having an open mind is considered such an ill. I don't know why making your mind up early, and sticking to that position in the face of all evidence or opposition is considered such a virtue. You know who didn't flip flop ever? Joesph McCarthy.

Jeezuz...that makes twice...in a day.

Agree 100%

Every politician says what the "Blue Plate" special of the day is to appease the largest number of voters.
It happens all the time.
Hillary votes for the war... later she's against it.

I really think people believe the President actually has more power than he really does also.
Straying from the topic.... shutting up now.

[CaneBrain]

I don't see why having an evolving political platform and having an open mind is considered such an ill. I don't know why making your mind up early, and sticking to that position in the face of all evidence or opposition is considered such a virtue. You know who didn't flip flop ever? Joesph McCarthy.

just to be clear....I said this flip-flopping would hurt him politically....I never said I think it is such a big deal.

I never understood why Kerry got slammed for being open-minded. But that is the reality.

[grocery_mony]

give the dude a break he is like 90 you know

[HollywoodAFD]

give the dude a break he is like 90 you know

True dat... he probably doesn't remember what he had for breakfast...much less his stand on foreign trade or abortion.

[speedz99]

Which is it? Rightly? or Wrongly?

What I really want to know is if he is for goodness or badness. Hmm? Hmm?

[chrozzo]

from cnn.com:

ummmm..../post

[Balloon guy]

just to be clear....I said this flip-flopping would hurt him politically....I never said I think it is such a big deal.

I never understood why Kerry got slammed for being open-minded. But that is the reality.

Because he said: "I voted for it, before I voted against it" Showing that he 'changed his mind' three times and was trying to take credit for being right the first time.


I agree it's one thing to say "I am changing my mind because I have new facts" etc., it's another to change for obvious political expediance.


Bush seems to hold to his convictions ( which I guess is the spin way of saying he won't change his mind, or it's a virtue, I guess it's perspective)
The war in Iraq isn't really something Bush could change his mind on though, once we got in, we got stuck in till the end. I'm sure there are very few people that are glad we went in, now that we see the results, but the dems get to pretend they were against it now when they voted to go in. Once she got pregnant, it's too late to worry about the sex.

[Balloon guy]

As far as McCain, it's kind of obvious he has to try to get some support from the base republicans that don't like his stance on many issues, so he has to pull back on the 'moderate' stances on issues that he can.

A lot of what he used to say I think he said to be 'heard above the noise' You toe the party line you don't get much press time. He's wanted the pres slot for quite some time.

I would vote for him, with little happiness, but I am stuck voting Obama.

Cause I suck at golf.

[BigDMcGee]

Because he said: "I voted for it, before I voted against it" Showing that he 'changed his mind' three times and was trying to take credit for being right the first time.
I agree it's one thing to say "I am changing my mind because I have new facts" etc., it's another to change for obvious political expediance.
Bush seems to hold to his convictions ( which I guess is the spin way of saying he won't change his mind, or it's a virtue, I guess it's perspective)
The war in Iraq isn't really something Bush could change his mind on though, once we got in, we got stuck in till the end. I'm sure there are very few people that are glad we went in, now that we see the results, but the dems get to pretend they were against it now when they voted to go in. Once she got pregnant, it's too late to worry about the sex.

I have to give you credit.. my post was an extremely veiled and subtle dig at bush.. I don't mention him, and I don't even allude to any of his decisions, but you still were able to see where I was going with my post . I have to give you credit for an excellent read.

[strategy]

Because he said: "I voted for it, before I voted against it" Showing that he 'changed his mind' three times and was trying to take credit for being right the first time.
I agree it's one thing to say "I am changing my mind because I have new facts" etc., it's another to change for obvious political expediance.
Bush seems to hold to his convictions ( which I guess is the spin way of saying he won't change his mind, or it's a virtue, I guess it's perspective)
The war in Iraq isn't really something Bush could change his mind on though, once we got in, we got stuck in till the end. I'm sure there are very few people that are glad we went in, now that we see the results, but the dems get to pretend they were against it now when they voted to go in. Once she got pregnant, it's too late to worry about the sex.

I've heard that the whole "voted before/against it" kerry thing was just an out of context snippet. either way, kudos to the right for successfully painting that picture.

I'm voting johnny m this time around. this is one issue I feel he is unlikely to flip-flop on:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DqR7zis99I