11 replies to this topic

[wisky_VI]

I had a home game over the weekend, NL 1/2 $100 max buy in meaning the only way to get over $100 is to win. 6-8 players that night.First hand.Ultra Tight player raises to $6, a call and a couple folds to me and I reraise to $12 with KK and only UT calls. Flop comes down AXX, UT bets $6 and I raise to $12 and he calls. Turn comes A, UT bets $6 and I reluctantly call while thinking I'd better get ready to dump. River card A and when he bets out my FCP teachings tell me to dump. I'm going to ask next session, he really wouldn't answer me that night. I figured more often than not he has that ace right ? I guess he could have hit one of the X for a pair with the show aces?He's so tight I wonder if I should have reraised more $$ before giving in, on this particular night he wasn't as tight as normal and must have been trying to change gears.(didn't really work, he got spanked a couple times and then got back to being real tight and more passive than agg)Any thoughts on my play ?Second handI'm on a blind with Q2 , five people stay in. Flop comes down 3 3 X , LAG player bets out $6, two folds and me and another call. Turn card is X , LAG bets out $30 and I reraise another $35 having hit my hand. Other player and LAG calls, I'm now worried a bit. River card X (A K not on board). LAG bets I think $20 or $30, I call and other guy calls. LAG shows a semibluff with 333, I get shown A high flush from third player.I've watched some shows actually where the pros give advice and they always seem to say go with the hand with so much invested and you hit it.I still wonder if I should have given up after the turn or certainly on the river. On the hand I was more afraid of LAG than the other guy, LAG loves to chase flushes and make semi bluffs. The other guy is normally VERY tight but on this night really had switched up.Any thought on what I probably should have done ?

[amarillotg]

i think you played the first hand a little poorly. after you raised the flop and were called you should of been done with the hand. especially when another ace fell on the turn.the second hand you should have been worried becuase i doubt the third player calls with an A high flush draw and with a paired board what did you think the other guy had. you could of been drawing dead.

[Vade]

wisky_VI said:

I had a home game over the weekend, NL 1/2 $100 max buy in meaning the only way to get over $100 is to win. 6-8 players that night.First hand.Ultra Tight player raises to $6, a call and a couple folds to me and I reraise to $12 with KK and only UT calls. Flop comes down AXX, UT bets $6 and I raise to $12 and he calls. Turn comes A, UT bets $6 and I reluctantly call while thinking I'd better get ready to dump. River card A and when he bets out my FCP teachings tell me to dump. I'm going to ask next session, he really wouldn't answer me that night. I figured more often than not he has that ace right ? I guess he could have hit one of the X for a pair with the show aces?He's so tight I wonder if I should have reraised more $$ before giving in, on this particular night he wasn't as tight as normal and must have been trying to change gears.(didn't really work, he got spanked a couple times and then got back to being real tight and more passive than agg)Any thoughts on my play ?Second handI'm on a blind with Q2 , five people stay in. Flop comes down 3 3 X , LAG player bets out $6, two folds and me and another call. Turn card is X , LAG bets out $30 and I reraise another $35 having hit my hand. Other player and LAG calls, I'm now worried a bit. River card X (A K not on board). LAG bets I think $20 or $30, I call and other guy calls. LAG shows a semibluff with 333, I get shown A high flush from third player.I've watched some shows actually where the pros give advice and they always seem to say go with the hand with so much invested and you hit it.I still wonder if I should have given up after the turn or certainly on the river. On the hand I was more afraid of LAG than the other guy, LAG loves to chase flushes and make semi bluffs. The other guy is normally VERY tight but on this night really had switched up.Any thought on what I probably should have done ?

My thoughts: Hand 1You should strongly consider raising preflop to abou 25 or 30. You've got a tight player betting and a call. Make them pay.Further, if you're going to raise this flop, you have to raise more then the minimum.Fold the turn unimproved.Hand 2: As insane as this seems, I think I'm folding when the flush hits faced with a big bet with someone yet to act. You've got the third best flush, and he bet more then the pot.

[BeanGW]

Vade said:

My thoughts: Hand 1You should strongly consider raising preflop to abou 25 or 30. You've got a tight player betting and a call. Make them pay.Further, if you're going to raise this flop, you have to raise more then the minimum.Fold the turn unimproved.Hand 2: As insane as this seems, I think I'm folding when the flush hits faced with a big bet with someone yet to act. You've got the third best flush, and he bet more then the pot.

Hand 1: I totally agree with your bets, but FOLD THE TURN??? Are you nuts? You've got Aces and Kings and your folding? For most players I'd say a bet/raise is in order, for a tight player, in this situationI think check/call is AOK on the Turn.If you are in there on the river, and you see that Ace, it's like a shiny piece of gold... you bet big time. Three Aces are on the board to go along with my K's... I'm sorry but I'm just not going to put a guy on the case card that has me beat when I'm already this invested in the pot. I absolutely, positively will not fold Aces full of K's unless the guy actually shows me that he has the other Ace (lol, like that's gonna happen). He could have any pocket pair 10's-Q's, or he paired the board. Hand 2: It may be insane, but I agree with you here Vade. Different story maaaybe if I had the King though....

[wisky_VI]

hmmm, I actually feel better about my play on hand one versus hand two which differs from posters so far which is what makes posting hands both fun and informative. I may get proved wrong when I asked Ed the tight guy but I would have bet the roll of hundos in my pocket that tight guy had the case ace. Second hand after my raise got called I sorta went into numb mode and afterwards figured I should have folded if nothing else to the threat of a boat. That seemed more realistic than someone in with the A or K plus another spade.I hope to get more comments, the flush hand was the large chunk of what I ended losing that night. Another hand I tried to run a bluff with two pair and the other guy had trips but that's NL hold em for ya. This flush hand is somewhat similar to other situations that can easily get me in trouble and sometimes do which is my #1 fault I feel. Post away folks..

[dms26]

Hand 1 : Quit raising the minimum, only the weakest players or someone on a total bluff is going to fold to a min raise, especially preflop. Reraise preflop to at least 18. Flop idon't like the raise either, again he isn't folding to a min raise no matter what he has unless its 23 offsuit. Then on the river you said you folded to a bet, how much was it? If it was only $6 like he had been betting that's a terrible fold, pay him $6 in a huge pot if he has quads. Hand 2: Tough situation, I'm really not sure what I would do. But I hate going for flushes when the board is paired.

[Scott3705]

BeanGW said:

Hand 1: I totally agree with your bets, but FOLD THE TURN??? Are you nuts? You've got Aces and Kings and your folding? For most players I'd say a bet/raise is in order, for a tight player, in this situationI think check/call is AOK on the Turn.If you are in there on the river, and you see that Ace, it's like a shiny piece of gold... you bet big time. Three Aces are on the board to go along with my K's... I'm sorry but I'm just not going to put a guy on the case card that has me beat when I'm already this invested in the pot. I absolutely, positively will not fold Aces full of K's unless the guy actually shows me that he has the other Ace (lol, like that's gonna happen). He could have any pocket pair 10's-Q's, or he paired the board. Hand 2: It may be insane, but I agree with you here Vade. Different story maaaybe if I had the King though....

Hand 1: I think it is impossible to agree with min. raises. OP min raised Preflop and then on the flop. Min. raises in my book are almost always unacceptable. Fold on the turn: Probably. The villain is tight and is not going to throw a bet of 6 into a large pot knowing full well that it's not going to run an ace out. The OP's read is an Ace, so why invest anymore money. Yeah you have Aces and Kings, but the other guys got three aces. I don't understand why you can't lay this down? On the river, it's my belief that you cannot let the second or even third of a card falling assure you that your opponent does not have the other one if you had put him on it in the first place. As for him having a smaller pocket, if he's really a tight player, he's folding the riase on the flop because there is absolutely nothing that is raising him that doesn't have him beat. Hand2: In general, i don't like chasing draws when the board is paired. that feeling increases when the pot is 3 or 4 way.

[Vade]

BeanGW said:

Hand 2: It may be insane, but I agree with you here Vade. Different story maaaybe if I had the King though....

Nah, King's the same. I'm only calling a bet that big if I have a draw to the nut flush. Don't forget the board being paired puts us in a tough spot

[BeanGW]

Scott: Sorry... I think you misinterpreted my statement regarding the bets. I was agreeing with Vade's betting idea... ie that he needed to raise more on Preflop and Flop.As for the fold... if he's an ultra tight player MAYBE I just check call on the turn and river. But it's a horrible fold on the river anyway you look at it. Work the numbers OK... if he's only being bet $6 here into a pot of $66. Ummm, do you have a 1 in 12 chance of being wrong about him having the Ace with three of them out there. I'd say so... If you are wrong about him having the Ace, do you win the pot? I'd say so... therefore I call. I'd do it everytime, and I think it's a +EV play.Betting more into the pot preflop and postflop (which I think we all agree is a solid play) would have been an even better situation to make the call if he's betting small. If he goes all-in, and your read is that he has the case Ace... well, then you can afford to be a lot less confident that he has the Ace in order to fold.

[wisky_VI]

RIVER bet was $12 and my read was he had the ace from the beginning and I was very reluctant to pay the turn bet. He's carefull to watch odds and will usually price things right/repeat bet sizes preflop/flop and maybe turn then increase on the river if he really likes his hand and of course pay the bets/raises of others if he thinks it's good. This guy basically plays limit at the NL game IMHO.Keep up the posts, I appreciate all advice.

[Scott3705]

BeanGW said:

Scott: Sorry... I think you misinterpreted my statement regarding the bets. I was agreeing with Vade's betting idea... ie that he needed to raise more on Preflop and Flop.As for the fold... if he's an ultra tight player MAYBE I just check call on the turn and river. But it's a horrible fold on the river anyway you look at it. Work the numbers OK... if he's only being bet $6 here into a pot of $66. Ummm, do you have a 1 in 12 chance of being wrong about him having the Ace with three of them out there. I'd say so... If you are wrong about him having the Ace, do you win the pot? I'd say so... therefore I call. I'd do it everytime, and I think it's a +EV play.Betting more into the pot preflop and postflop (which I think we all agree is a solid play) would have been an even better situation to make the call if he's betting small. If he goes all-in, and your read is that he has the case Ace... well, then you can afford to be a lot less confident that he has the Ace in order to fold.

Sorry, thought u meant you agreed with the OP's bet sizes. I'm also not advocating a river fold as much as a turn fold. Given the OP's last post, it is no unccomon for this guy to be putting out small bets when he has a very strong hand. By calling the turn bet, you may have been throwing $6 away because you may have been faced with a larger river bet that you could not call. Probably on the river 6 bucks would be enough for my curiousity to get the best of me. For 12, it's probably too much when I'm fairly sure he has it anyway.

[wisky_VI]

that's my dilema, changing that 'lets see it' or doing too many coin flip situations which make the variance brutal. when I buckle down and play properly or close to it I have no problem in the .50/1 or 1/2 games be it online or inperson.I have to learn more poker patience and I'm getting there. I'm sitting there that night playing the $100 buy in game with about 5large of my bankroll on me, it's sorta like a test.