KingJames 11 Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 Live, .25/.5 Mixed Game, NLHE and PLOHero has QQ77 double suited in late positionHero chooses not to pot preflop as no-one folds in this game and would like to save his money for Hold'em6 players see a flop of Q 6 2 :spade:Checks to Hero who pots $3Button and BB CallTurn 10 :diamond:BB ChecksHero Bets $12Button CallsBB says he's on OESD and Medium flush draw and mucksTurn 8 :heart:Hero CheckButton Bets $20Hero??I suck at PLO... help me not just with this hand but playing top set in generalDo you just pot pot and hope not to get draw against and sleep well knowing that in the long run you make money against the callers??James Link to post Share on other sites
El Guapo 10 Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 I'll quantify this by saying I am much better at PLO live, than online, because there are so many semi bluffs on draws that happen in this game, when the river comes it helps me by seeing if someone looks like they have made their hand.with the way this hand played out, you could have been playing against someone with who had a flush and wrap draw, and go there. In the heat of the moment during this game, and at these limits I prob call. But taking the time to analyze it and look at the calls and bets, that is the only assumption that makes sense, so I would muck. Link to post Share on other sites
simo_8ball 1 Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 Hero has QQ77 double suited in late positionHero chooses not to pot preflop as no-one folds in this game and would like to save his money for Hold'emFFS raise preflop.http://simo8ball.blogspot.com/2008/02/rais...imit-omaha.html Link to post Share on other sites
bdc30 0 Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 FFS raise preflop.omg it's the first 24 pages of the low content thread all over againI agree though, it's much nicer playing a 22/12 style than it was playing as a 30/3 Link to post Share on other sites
Sheiky 0 Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 Bet/fold river Link to post Share on other sites
BigLebowski 0 Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 In this particular hand without any reads on villain and as played, I pay this off 100% of the time. Link to post Share on other sites
BudBundy 0 Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 If he is a type of player who calls down light , i bet.If he is a player who will bet his missed FD when checked to , i check.I actually like check call on river. If we bet , he calls with a lower set or two pair or whatever made hand on flop he is calling down us with.If we check , he value bets a lower set or two pair or whatever made hand on flop he is calling down us with plus he usually bluffs his missed flush draw. Link to post Share on other sites
dingas 0 Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 I don't mind check-calling the river to induce a bluff. Definitely have to call river without a read. Link to post Share on other sites
KingJames 11 Posted June 2, 2008 Author Share Posted June 2, 2008 Check-call general consensus?Villain is LAG who loves to call with draws... Anyway thanks for the feedback... Link to post Share on other sites
KoRnholio 2 Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 A rivered straight is very unlikely here. Check-call river is my standard play against a loose-aggressive type who might well bluff with a missed flush draw. Against stations bet-fold because they will look up with sets/2 pair hands and only raise a straight. Link to post Share on other sites
Frez 0 Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 Well, I'm pretty new at this, but I can't think of any reason to raise PF except to mix up so they don't always put you on AAXX. Those two pair cannot even connect, so all you have is a set draw.You have to call the river as played - straight is that much more unlikely since you have half the 7s in the deck.I would rather the bet/fold line, but I guess if you know he's betting a busted draw most of the time, then c/c is good. Link to post Share on other sites
simo_8ball 1 Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 Well, I'm pretty new at this, but I can't think of any reason to raise PF except to mix up so they don't always put you on AAXX. Those two pair cannot even connect, so all you have is a set draw.Please read my blog entry that I linked to. I don't often promote things I've written (I don't think I ever have before), but I think it provides a good explanation of why you want to raise here preflop. It's such a huge misconception overall, and it needs to be addressed if you're going to be successful at this game.QQ77 doublesuited is a big big hand preflop. Two decent flush draws, and you flop a set 25% of the time. You're building a pot preflop so you can stack someone postflop. If you limp along, the pot will remain small all the way through the hand. Link to post Share on other sites
KingJames 11 Posted June 3, 2008 Author Share Posted June 3, 2008 Let's say I pot it preflop... to 2.50 or 3 or whatever it would have been and 2 or 3 calls... say the same two opponants who called on the flop...Then there is about $10 preflopI pot the flop for $10 and both callMy pot bet on the turn is all in and I'm against a flush draw and a straight draw... Seriously, I'm a PLO donk... I guess top set is good against only draws at that point, huh?Gosh I suck!James Link to post Share on other sites
simo_8ball 1 Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 I guess top set is good against only draws at that point, huh?Not sure what you mean by this.If we raise preflop we get money in with an equity edge, and we gain the betting lead, so we control the hand on the flop.This is a hand where you generally know what kind of flop you're wanting. 1/4 of the time you'll flop a set, some other % you'll flop an overpair on a dry board and win the pot that way. You will flop a flush draw a decent % of the time and be able to put pressure on there.I'd say that almost 50% of flops are good for your hand, and because you have position you want the pot to be bigger so you can extract more value when the flop is favourable. Raising preflop can also buy you a free card if the flop is AKx with a flush draw. Link to post Share on other sites
KingJames 11 Posted June 3, 2008 Author Share Posted June 3, 2008 Thanks Simo, I agree that I should have raised preflop... Like I said I suck at PLO and I appreciate the input Link to post Share on other sites
BudBundy 0 Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 You just made it sure that noone except Simo is replying to your threads from now on Link to post Share on other sites
Frez 0 Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 Please read my blog entry that I linked to. I don't often promote things I've written (I don't think I ever have before), but I think it provides a good explanation of why you want to raise here preflop. It's such a huge misconception overall, and it needs to be addressed if you're going to be successful at this game.QQ77 doublesuited is a big big hand preflop. Two decent flush draws, and you flop a set 25% of the time. You're building a pot preflop so you can stack someone postflop. If you limp along, the pot will remain small all the way through the hand.OK, I read it. And looked back into Hwang's book. I'm now convinced there is merit in the PFR. The set comes 21.4% of the time, the flush draws help, and when you hit, you want it to be on a bigger pot, plus what I said before about not just raising with Aces.Thanks Link to post Share on other sites
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