Poker Tracker 3, Holdem Manager And Poker E V

[simo_8ball 1]

I know a lot of people are currently using the PokerTracker3 beta release, so I felt it was important to make this topic. They are planning to release it commercially today for $90.There are three programs on the market currently. There is PT3 which is being released today, there is Holdem Manager which was released a couple of months ago, and there is PokerEV (the full tracker, not the current version), which will be released on public beta a week tomorrow.Before you buy any of the products, I think it is extremely worthwhile at least trying the others. PT3 has a 30 day trial period, so you can wait to see PokerEV before the PT3 trial ends.I personally haven't tried Holdem Manager. I don't really like the layout from the screenshots, and I'm not a fan of the HUD they are using. However, I know that a lot of people are very happy with HM, and it is currently the most fully featured tracker+HUD on the market. I can't really say much more because I don't know enough about it. You can download a trial version (limited to 2500 hands) from their website if you wish to try it. HM is $80 to buy.PokerTracker3 has the benefit of experience. The people designing it have been in the business for over 5 years. This is a huge selling point. Turns out this isn't the case. PT3 is made by PAHUD, who simply bought the PT name As for the software itself, I think it is far from ready for commercial release. I think the layout is good (the best I've seen so far), and the overall functionality seems smooth. PT2 worked extremely well, and it seems like they have taken the view of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". They have taken the PT2 template, and upgraded it. If you are familiar with PT2 you will be familiar with PT3. Overall it is a very good product. Unfortunately it isn't (IMO) complete yet. The replayer is extremely poor quality, there are no EV or luck stats at all (and it remains unknown as to whether they will ever add them, which I think is a massive flaw compared to the competition), the performance isn't too great (compared to the competition), I think the filters are a little awkward to use, and the custom reports are quite difficult to create for inexperienced users. I like PT3, and as an overall package it is a huge improvement on PT2. When (or if) they get round to upgrading the replayer and maybe making some adjustments to improve ease of use, I think it will be a great product.Update: There have been hundreds of people complaining about PT3 crashing, the HUD being buggy and that PT3 overall just wasn't ready for release. http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=229761 The general consensus is that HM is far superior at the moment.PokerEV isn't known to a lot of you. Some probably know it as the quirky little thing that tells you how unlucky you are and have never used it for anything else, which is a pity. When used properly PEV can find leaks in your game, can tell you both where you are losing money, and why. Now there is going to be a full PokerEV tracker released next week on beta release to the public. I was beta testing the earlier versions, and I was actively comparing it to PT3's beta. I didn't like the layout particularly. I thought PT3 was a lot cleaner and more intuitive to look at and access (probably because I'm so used to PT2). The beta version I was testing had all of the skins disabled though. I know that in the final release you will be able to choose from many different looks and layouts, so I am holding back on criticisms of this. He is also overhauling some of the tabs to make it more intuitive so again, I think this issue will be resolved. That is honestly the only advantage PT3 has at this point in time.The filters available in PEV are more user friendly, more in depth, and more intuitive than PT3. The import times are much faster.The database takes up much less hard drive space.PEV has a much better hand replayer (although PT3 are set to overhaul theirs at some point)PEV supports Holdem, Omaha and Omaha Hi/Lo all in one program and one database. PT3 only supports holdem, and you will have to wait many months before you can go out and purchase the new PT Omaha for a further fee. PEV will be less expensive than PT3 (no exact figures, but I think it will be about $50 for the tracker and $20 for the HUD).PokerEV has EV and allin luck stats.Being objective, I cannot find anything that PT3 has that PEV doesn't, other than the nice layout. Any feature I have seen in PT3 is available in PEV (usually in more depth), but there are quite a few things I have seen in PEV that PT3 doesn't have.The message I am trying to get to here is simply this:Don't just buy PT3 because it is available now. I believe that there is a better, and cheaper alternative in PokerEV and there is absolutely no downside in trying it. By the same token, if you are set on buying PokerEV or Holdem Manager, try PT3.http://www.holdemmanager.net/http://www.pokertracker.com/http://www.pokerevsoftware.com/EDIT: Sorry, forgot one thing. PEV is not set up to handle tournaments yet (I don't think). I think PT3 is probably better if you are mostly a tournament player. I know tournament support is coming for PEV, but I have no idea when.

[navybuttons 16]

very very good post. am i missing out by sticking with PT2?

[no not baxter 0]

already bouthg pt3q

[simo_8ball 1]

very very good post. am i missing out by sticking with PT2?

To be honest, I don't think you're missing out on too much if you stick with PT2. The new software isn't essential, but there are a few cool new features being added all round. I think it's worth buying, but I can understand if peope don't see the need. PT3 and PEV both have free trial periods, so you may as well try them and see. If you don't think you need it then fine.One of the main things is the ability to see 3-bet and 4-bet stats both in the tracker and on the HUD (along with millions of other stats unavailable in PT2). Overall it is just a complete upgrade. You get more detail, more features, all sorts of things. The new HUDs have note taking incorporated into them, and also allow you to replay previous hands very easily. I've seen and used a lot of the stuff that will be in PEV's public release, and there are many really cool features - you select an area of the graph and it will zoom in and show you just that area, or it can open those hands in the replayer, or it will filter the other tabs to show your playing stats over those hands. If you have a downswing you can see your stats easily over that period and then compare them to your stats from another period.I think that for ~$70 with full tracker and HUD (with omaha, O8b and holdem all in one package) that PEV will be excellent value for people who play both/all three games. You wouldn't need to have PTO and PT2 with separate databases, you can look at everything condensed into one. You can set it to show whatever you want. You can see stats and graphs of your omaha and holdem sessions either together or separately. That's one of the main selling point for me because I play PLO and NLHE. I don't want to have to buy PT3 and then wait 6 months to have to buy $90's worth of the new PTO as well.

[simo_8ball 1]

already bouthg pt3q

You're a tourney donk. PT3 is better for tournaments. At least, it will be for quite a while. PEV doesn't have tournament support yet I don't think.

[simo_8ball 1]

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=90680This is the 2p2 thread about PokerEV, if anyone is interested in reading about features and things.

[GWCGWC 83]

very very good post. am i missing out by sticking with PT2?

There's a built in HUD so you don't have to buy additional PAHUD software. I was under the impression they weren't going to have new patches for PT2 after the release but apparently they are for awhile at least. They don't have a stud or omaha version of PT3. I think they need to add all the other games as soon as possible. I didn't see where I could buy PT3 with an online transfer like I did with all three versions of PT2. Using PT2 is essential for tracking results in cash games. The HUD is nice and not having to click and read a HH to see mucked cards is the best online poker feature ever. Since I don't study my play or specific opponents after a session, I don't use the 640,043 filter options in PT2. I'd imagine PT3 has at least twice as many filters. Also, converting files to PT3 is gonna be a pita for someone who doesn't use postQrl(whatever) because they can't figure out the step by step instructions. I'm using PT2 for as long as possible but when I'm forced to go to PT3, I'll gladly pay whatever they ask. It's that good.

[Merby 3]

SPAM!(Just kidding) I am very excited about PokerEV and am looking forward to its release. I will look into PT3 and Hold'Em manager first, but I have a strong feeling that my final decision is a foregone conclusion.

[simo_8ball 1]

Since I don't study my play or specific opponents after a session, I don't use the 640,043 filter options in PT2. I'd imagine PT3 has at least twice as many filters.

It has probably about 1000x more filters than PT2. PEV has a lot more filters than PT3.

Also, converting files to PT3 is gonna be a pita for someone who doesn't use postQrl(whatever) because they can't figure out the step by step instructions.

PT3 has postgresql built in. You install PT3 and it installs postgresql with it. It's mind numbingly simple. Not sure about PokerEV though. Installing PostgreSQL manually is pretty simple though.

when I'm forced to go to PT3, I'll gladly pay whatever they ask. It's that good.

See, the whole point of this thread is specifically to NOT jump straight to PT3, and to at least take a look at the alternatives.At this point in time, Holdem Manager is probably the best software available because it has been out the longest.PEV will be cheaper than PT3 (the developer has already stated this) and my own opinion is that PEV be a better program all round. We will have to wait and see, but I preferred the PEV beta to the PT3 beta in many ways.

[silkyjonson 1]

I've never used tracking software and I'm primarily a tourney donk that plays on a laptop, but I will be moving and switching to a full desktop double screen setup at which time I want to start using tracking software, should I buy it now or wait and what program do you suggest? I do play some PLO and other mixed cash games and tournies.

[simo_8ball 1]

I've never used tracking software and I'm primarily a tourney donk that plays on a laptop, but I will be moving and switching to a full desktop double screen setup at which time I want to start using tracking software, should I buy it now or wait and what program do you suggest? I do play some PLO and other mixed cash games and tournies.

Try all of them. See which you like./shrug

[no not baxter 0]

You're a tourney donk. PT3 is better for tournaments. At least, it will be for quite a while. PEV doesn't have tournament support yet I don't think.

i play cash, just not a winner!

[cwik 0]

Thanks for the updates Simo.

[Ouch-8s 5]

Using PT2 is essential for tracking results in cash games. The HUD is nice and not having to click and read a HH to see mucked cards is the best online poker feature ever. Since I don't study my play or specific opponents after a session, I don't use the 640,043 filter options in PT2. I'd imagine PT3 has at least twice as many filters. Also, converting files to PT3 is gonna be a pita for someone who doesn't use postQrl(whatever) because they can't figure out the step by step instructions.

teh mucked cards are my fave part, just to keep track of whats going on. i dont analyze my play either, but i probably should.i tried to convert the PT2 hands but it took forever. i may try again.

[checkymcfold 0]

thanks, simo!i've been REALLY intrigued by the discussion over at 4 about pev, and it seems like it has an amazing amount of potential. do you know whether it will support AP at its beta release?it's also worth saying that after trying HEM, i think that software is total garbage on a lot of levels when compared to anything else out there.

[cwik 0]

Is the software avalible for download at pokertracker.com RIGHT NOW, actually the final produect? Still looks like beta stuff to me.

[Citizen Erased 0]

Probably going to be asked eventually...Mac compatability?I know PT3 is working on a Mac version, but don't know about the other two.

[simo_8ball 1]

it's also worth saying that after trying HEM, i think that software is total garbage on a lot of levels when compared to anything else out there.

I've heard mixed reports. Some people hate it, and some people love it.I haven't tried it because I didn't like the screenshots, I wasn't a big fan of the HUD, and partly because they decided to release commercially before it was anywhere near ready. They knew PT3 was catching them up quickly and they wanted to cash in while they were still technically ahead. Their first product I know was very buggy.Some people really like it, and I do think it's worth looking at before you decide which one to go for.

i've been REALLY intrigued by the discussion over at 4 about pev, and it seems like it has an amazing amount of potential.

The one thing I'd say is, think about how new and innovative the original PokerEV was. The EV stats, separating showdown and non showdown profits and losses, the replayer with site skins, the innovative, intuitive and in depth filters. All of it was thought of and designed by Phil.Take that, and extrapolate the ideas and innovations to a full HUD and Tracker.I was one of the few lucky ones involved in the private beta testing, and I was highly impressed.One feature (there are a few, and likely some others that I don't know of) that he hasn't made public yet (oops - I'll probably get into trouble for revealing this) is a table report that you can run of X against Y, with a return value of Z, for whatever X, Y and Z you want.Quote from Phil (developer):"You could run flop bet size along the top vs flop hand type or board texture along the side, with a return type of W$SD, to quickly get a breakdown of how flop profitability varies with bet size and hand type and board texture. Or, you could run hero cbet size down the side, with number of opponents along the top, with turn fold% as the return type, to see how often you end up folding the turn vs bet size and number of opponents. There will be little graphs (basically, filled bars) in each of the cells indicating the magnitude of each item relative to the largest one to quickly spot patterns."Hopefully he 1) won't realise I've posted this, or 2) won't care too much because HM and PT3 are already so far developed that they won't easily be able to copy it.

do you know whether it will support AP at its beta release?

Not sure, but I could ask him to push it up the 'to do' list if it isn't. I don't think it takes long to create the hand parser for each site.

[simo_8ball 1]

Is the software avalible for download at pokertracker.com RIGHT NOW, actually the final produect? Still looks like beta stuff to me.

Looks like it's still in beta for a couple days. The beta that's out now is pretty much the same as the commercial product though.I don't agree with them releasing it with so many unfinished things. The replayer is pathetic at best, and I think they should have waited until that was at least somewhere near respectable before selling the product.

Probably going to be asked eventually...Mac compatability?I know PT3 is working on a Mac version, but don't know about the other two.

Not sure. I'll get back to you on that.

[simo_8ball 1]

Quote from Phil (PokerEV developer):"It's $45 for a micro stakes version (below $0.5 bb) with HUD, $75 for all stakes with HUD. That's for the first month, prices may go up."

[sagedecarte 0]

Quote from Phil (PokerEV developer):"It's $45 for a micro stakes version (below $0.5 bb) with HUD, $75 for all stakes with HUD. That's for the first month, prices may go up."

check your pms plz:)

[simo_8ball 1]

From the 2p2 thread:Quote:Any support for the mac planned?Quote:No. I should have put that down as one of the weaknesses. There are cross platform compilers for C# but they're problematic and often require lots of code changes. I'm going to look into it more, but for now Mac users have a choice of PokerTracker 3 or running parallels.That was posted in December though, so I don't know if there have been any developments. I'll ask.

[sennin 0]

Installed PT3 today, got the HUD running during my tournies, but the stat boxes keep randomly disappearing from players, including me. Any idea why its doing this?

[no not baxter 0]

Installed PT3 today, got the HUD running during my tournies, but the stat boxes keep randomly disappearing from players, including me. Any idea why its doing this?

does this for me too, also can u move the hud boxes?

[sennin 0]

does this for me too, also can u move the hud boxes?

right click + drag