One More Obama ... Drama ... Bomba ...

[nutzbuster 7]

Ok, so it looks like Obama has this nom in the bag.And many have speculated that if this happened, Hillary could become Obama's VP pick.So IF Obama picked Billary to be the V.P. would you Hillary supporters vote for Obama?Would the Obama supporters be happy with this arrangement?(I know ... I said I wouldn't have an political discussions anymore, and really this isn't my opinion, just a debate topic. sue me)Enjoy.

[DanielNegreanu 141]

I think adding her would be a bad move and really hope he doesn't after the crap she tried to pull on him. He is better off with a much older white dude with loads of experience. Someone the racists might like enough to vote for a black dude. Nah, just wishful thinking. Seriously though, I think a more conservative Christian VP would be ideal for him on many levels, even if that meant going with a republican. In fact, I think running with a Republican is an excellent idea. That would surely qualify as "change" and would go along way toward the promise he makes of ending the bickering and bipartisanship. Dems might not like it, but independants and Republicans who don't care for McCain might.

[Franchise632 0]

I really don't think, nor do I want, Hillary will get a VP slot. I am pretty sure Michelle Obama has said as much in the past week. I think it would have been much more likely for Hillary to offer Obama a VP slot. I think it would go against his theme of change. He has said time and again that it is time to turn the page in Washington and that it is time for the Bush/Clinton era to end. I was watching a bit of MSNBC earlier tonight and I thought I saw a poll (AP maybe) that said 55% of Dems supported a Obama/Clinton ticket. Suprisingly Obama supporters hate this idea. While I like Daniel's idea of bringing a Republican along I seriously doubt that will happen. I would imagine it will be an established white governor. That will give them someone with executive expierence and may help plug up Obama's biggest hole which is white middle class voters. If he can pick up another 5-10% of those voters he will win this thing in a walk. He needs someone that brings Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Florida is play and can help him lock up a swing state like Missouri. I also wouldn't be suprised if it was someone like Sen Joe Biden or Sen Chris Dodd. Kansas Governor Kathleen Sebelius may also be a possible choice. A democratic woman governor from a red state, not a bad idea. Bill Richardson also could show back up though I doubt for VP....much more likely he could end up back in a cabinet position. Lots of fun things to think about.

[gradin123 0]

Obama will not choose Hillary. That is the bottom line.

[gradin123 0]

I think adding her would be a bad move and really hope he doesn't after the crap she tried to pull on him. He is better off with a much older white dude with loads of experience. Someone the racists might like enough to vote for a black dude. Nah, just wishful thinking. Seriously though, I think a more conservative Christian VP would be ideal for him on many levels, even if that meant going with a republican. In fact, I think running with a Republican is an excellent idea. That would surely qualify as "change" and would go along way toward the promise he makes of ending the bickering and bipartisanship. Dems might not like it, but independants and Republicans who don't care for McCain might.

Obama isn't about change. You are kidding yourself if you think he is. He is a product of Chicago politics which is amongst the dirtiest in the country. He won't bring the right and left together. He won't pick a republican for VP, he'll likely pick Richardson(who is a slimeball) or Tim Kaine of Virginia. He doesn't care about Republicans or conservatives. He will have the house and senate likely in democratic hands when he takes office in January and he will be much more of a left wing democrat than Hillary would have been or Bill ever was. Barack believes in Big Government solving your problems more than the Clinton's do.And what was so bad about the Clinton years anyways? In my view he was a good president. I know a lot of conservatives hate him with a passion and won't give him credit for any of the good things that happened while he was in office but I wonder if Obama's supporters can even admit the Clinton presidency was good? And if they can then why does the US have to change from that? Obama plays the race card all the time in politically correct ways. They subtlety suggest that if you don't like Obama it's because you are racist.I don't like Obama and I am definitely not racist. I detest racism. I don't like Obama because I don't like what I see when I look past his rhetoric. He is a great speaker and often talks about uniting the country but his policies are largely undefined and he has already shown in his limited political experience that he is corruptible. The Rezko connection is real despite his denials to it. So Daniel, you didn't like the moment in the LA debate where she chastised him for supporting a slumlord? You think that was bitchy of her? Well it was true. He can deny any involvement with Rezko all he wants but Rezko did donate big money to Obama and Obama did get a sweetheart deal on his house. The favors Obama gave him in return are not provable but any reasonable person would have to concede they likely happened. I'm not saying the Clintons don't have some unsavory connections but they have been through a lot more years politics and they aren't running on BS rhetoric that chastises that kind of politics. Really my biggest problem with Obama though is that he will go through growing pains as president. Being president is a very difficult job. Hillary knows what it is like and when the country is in as much trouble as it is now that experience is needed from the get go. Bill went through growing pains in office. His first two years in office were his toughest and it was only when the Republicans got control of the house and senate that he went more to the center and as a result became a better president. Obama will go through growing pains too and it will be a time that the country can least afford it.

[akoff 0]

Obama isn't about change. You are kidding yourself if you think he is. He is a product of Chicago politics which is amongst the dirtiest in the country. Hey now don't let the facts get in the way of a good storyObama plays the race card all the time in politically correct ways. They subtlety suggest that if you don't like Obama it's because you are racist.and he does it well.I don't like Obama and I am definitely not racist. I detest racism. If you don't like Obama your a racist cause Daniel says so...I don't like Obama because I don't like what I see when I look past his rhetoric. He is a great speaker and often talks about uniting the country but his policies are largely undefined and he has already shown in his limited political experience that he is corruptible. This would be shocking how?I'm not saying the Clintons don't have some unsavory connections but they have been through a lot more years politics and they aren't running on BS rhetoric that chastises that kind of politics. Hmm your gonna have a tough time using Billary as your lofty standard of politicsReally my biggest problem with Obama though is that he will go through growing pains as president. relax he is not going to win Hillary knows what it is like and when the country is in as much trouble as it is now that experience is needed from the get go. The only thing Hillary knows about is how to keep her mouth shut when her husband tossing yogert on some intern!!Bill went through growing pains in office. His first two years in office were his toughest and it was only when the Republicans got control of the house and senate that he went more to the center and as a result became a better president. So Bill can thank the Rebublicans for forcing his office to be reasonable...shocking to me that it takes a bunch conservatives to force a democrat to use his head instead of his heart.Obama will go through growing pains too and it will be a time that the country can least afford it.Again...he isn't going to win.

[Balloon guy 158]

What if McCain picks Joe Lieberman as his VP?

[gradin123 0]

"So Bill can thank the Rebublicans for forcing his office to be reasonable...shocking to me that it takes a bunch conservatives to force a democrat to use his head instead of his heart.Again...he isn't going to win." I think the left wing of the democratic party would be/are horrible at running a government. The real reason the Clintons are hated amongst some democrats is because they think Bill sold them out in 1994 when he moved more to the center in an effort to survive.Obama will win. I'll take even money bets on that.

[checkymcfold 0]

wesley clark will be obama's vp if he wants to have the best chance of winning.

[checkymcfold 0]

LOL@:

Obama isn't about change. You are kidding yourself if you think he is. He is a product of Chicago politics which is amongst the dirtiest in the country.

yes, everyone involved in chicago politics is dirty, without any evidence supporting that.

He won't bring the right and left together. He won't pick a republican for VP, he'll likely pick Richardson(who is a slimeball) or Tim Kaine of Virginia.

did you hear this from something other than the voices in your head? the most likely choices for obama at this point are ed rendell (most likely), or someone like wesley clark from a more military-oriented background.

And what was so bad about the Clinton years anyways? In my view he was a good president. I know a lot of conservatives hate him with a passion and won't give him credit for any of the good things that happened while he was in office but I wonder if Obama's supporters can even admit the Clinton presidency was good? And if they can then why does the US have to change from that?

he said as much during at least two of the primary debates. did you watch those?

Obama plays the race card all the time in politically correct ways. They subtlety suggest that if you don't like Obama it's because you are racist.

LOL. this just reads like you're overcompensating for some fear that you're racist deep down inside.

I don't like Obama and I am definitely not racist. I detest racism.

so does this.

I don't like Obama because I don't like what I see when I look past his rhetoric. He is a great speaker and often talks about uniting the country but his policies are largely undefined

i'm glad that you're willing to get all of your political knowledge from the mainstream media, none of which spends any time on boring details like "policies" for any of the candidates. you can easily get a better understanding of *gasp!* well-defined policy stances for any of the candidates by going to their respective websites and actually reading them.

and he has already shown in his limited political experience that he is corruptible. The Rezko connection is real despite his denials to it. So Daniel, you didn't like the moment in the LA debate where she chastised him for supporting a slumlord? You think that was bitchy of her? Well it was true. He can deny any involvement with Rezko all he wants but Rezko did donate big money to Obama and Obama did get a sweetheart deal on his house. The favors Obama gave him in return are not provable but any reasonable person would have to concede they likely happened. I'm not saying the Clintons don't have some unsavory connections but they have been through a lot more years politics and they aren't running on BS rhetoric that chastises that kind of politics.

i don't think that you really are paying attention to what obama's saying about changing politics. he's not talking about utterly annihilating politics as we know it and rebuilding some sort of grassroots, kumbaya-singing, hand holding wonderland in its stead. he's talking about drastically limiting the amount of influence that lobbyists have in washington and trying to refocus the source of political power from the campaign contributor back to the voter. you do see that these things are different, right? he's not an idiot, though. he still has to actually take in funds to run a campaign, and he, no more than any other political figure, isn't about to make you fill out an application and go through a background check before you contribute to his campaign. the most you can expect from anyone in this regard is really just that they distance themselves from money that turns out to be somewhat dirty. obama donated rezko's money to charity after stuff about rezko came to light. virtually all candidates do this, and you can call it politically expedient or just not retarded or whatever you want. i'll just call it logical.

Really my biggest problem with Obama though is that he will go through growing pains as president. Being president is a very difficult job. Hillary knows what it is like and when the country is in as much trouble as it is now that experience is needed from the get go. Bill went through growing pains in office. His first two years in office were his toughest and it was only when the Republicans got control of the house and senate that he went more to the center and as a result became a better president. Obama will go through growing pains too and it will be a time that the country can least afford it.

EVERYONE goes through growing pains in the beginning of a tenure as president. would clinton have a little more experience in that regard than most? sure, but that's something that you're going to have to balance with the fact that if she is elected, two families will have run our country for at least 24 years. that may not bother others so much, but tbh, it REALLY bothers me, a hell of a lot more than the idea that our president may have to get accustomed to a job that LITERALLY ANYONE would have to get accustomed to to a great degree.

[Balloon guy 158]

yes, everyone involved in chicago politics is dirty, without any evidence supporting that.

Well there's Daly...and Obama....How many more you want?

[gradin123 0]

LOL@:yes, everyone involved in chicago politics is dirty, without any evidence supporting that.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/c...t,1,57567.storyObama knows his way around a ballotSome say his ability to play political hardball goes back to his first campaignA close examination of Obama's first campaign clouds the image he has cultivated throughout his political career: The man now running for president on a message of giving a voice to the voiceless first entered public office not by leveling the playing field, but by clearing it.'If you can get 'em, get 'em'Just in time for the Dec. 18, 1995, filing deadline, Palmer submitted 1,580 signatures—about twice the minimum required. That day, Obama lashed out at her, telling the Tribune she had pressured him to withdraw."I am disappointed that she's decided to go back on her word to me," he said.Obama campaign aides also responded that day—but quietly, and out of the limelight.Davis and Dobry marshaled volunteers and began poring through the nominating petitions of Palmer and the three lesser-known Democrats, according to interviews."We looked at those petitions and found that none of them met the requirements of the law," Dobry said. "Alice's people, they'd done it in a great hurry. Almost all her petitions were signed a day or so before the deadline."According to Davis, Palmer "had kids gathering the names. I remember two of her circulators, Pookie and Squirt."Davis and others urged Obama to file legal challenges.Such tactics are legal and frequently used in Chicago. Ballot challenges eliminated 67 of the 245 declared aldermanic candidates in Chicago before this past February's elections, an election board spokesman said.Davis recalled telling Obama: "If you can get 'em, get 'em. Why give 'em a break?"I said, 'Barack, I'm going to knock them all off.'"He said, 'What do you need?'"I said, 'I need an attorney.'"He said, 'Who is the best?'"I said, 'Tom Johnson.' "Obama already knew civil rights attorney and fellow Harvard Law graduate Thomas Johnson, who had waged election cases for the late Mayor Washington and had offered Obama informal legal advice since the days of Project Vote.With Johnson's legal help, Obama's team was confident. They piled binders of polling sheets in the election board office on the second floor of City Hall, and on Jan. 2, 1996, began the days-long hearings that would eliminate the other Democrats.Little-known candidate Marc Ewell filed 1,286 names, but Obama's objections left him 86 short of the minimum, and election officials struck him from the ballot, records show. Ewell filed a federal lawsuit contesting the board's decision, but Johnson intervened on Obama's behalf and prevailed when Ewell's case was dismissed days later.Ewell could not be reached for comment, but the federal judge's decision showed how he was tripped up by complexities in the election procedures.City authorities had just completed a massive, routine purge of unqualified names that eliminated 15,871 people from the 13th District rolls, court records show.Ewell and other Obama rivals had relied on early 1995 polling sheets to verify the signatures of registered voters—but Obama's challenges were decided at least in part using the most recent, accurate list, records show.Askia filed 1,899 signatures, but the Obama team sustained objections to 1,211, leaving him 69 short, records show.Leafing through scrapbooks in his South Shore apartment, Askia, a perennially unsuccessful candidate, acknowledges that he paid Democratic Party precinct workers $5 a sheet for some of the petitions, and now suspects they used a classic Chicago ruse of passing the papers among themselves to forge the signatures. "They round-tabled me," Askia said.Palmer to this day does not concede the flaws that Obama's team found in her signatures. She maintains that she could have overcome the Obama team's objections and stayed on the ballot if she had more time and resources.It was wrenching to withdraw, she said. "But sit for a moment, catch your breath, get up and keep going. I'm a very practical person. Politics is not the only vehicle for accomplishing things." She became a special assistant to the president of the University of Illinois and is now retired.Obama said he has not been in touch with Palmer since 1996. "No, not really, no," he said.Though she hasn't determined whom to support in the presidential race, Palmer, 67, said her dispute with Obama doesn't affect her assessment of his fitness to hold office.Saying that jobless high school dropouts "are sitting on the steps next to my house," Palmer added: "There is a savage economy going on out here, and we've got collateral damage. I am looking closely to see who has the courage, the smarts."

[checkymcfold 0]

Well there's Daly...and Obama....How many more you want?

the argument would need to go like this:chicago politics have such and such scandals, associated with persons x, y, and z.these scandals lack comparable counterparts in other major urban centers (hint: they don't).ergo, chicago politics is especially corrupt.i'm still unclear as to why obama is corrupt.

[checkymcfold 0]

Such tactics are legal and frequently used in Chicago. Ballot challenges eliminated 67 of the 245 declared aldermanic candidates in Chicago before this past February's elections, an election board spokesman said.

yes, exactly. i still don't understand wtf your point is. this whole process is perfectly legal, if a little undesirable.

[Nimue1995 1]

So he understands the mechanics of Montana politics perfectly. Have seen the same method used time and again here to keep certain initiatives off the ballot.

[gradin123 0]

LOL@:LOL. this just reads like you're overcompensating for some fear that you're racist deep down inside.

This is exactly what I'm taking about. I say I am not a racist and that makes me a closet racist?

[Potsie P 0]

Well there's Daly...and Obama....How many more you want?

I used to work for Daley (way down the chain) as an analyst with the City of Chicago. He's a great promoter (everyone votes for him election after election just because the cost of removing his name from every sign and placard in the city would cost too much). And sure, he puts his friends in the right places. But bottom line, he's an effective and inspiring leader. Why, it seems like just yesterday I was at one of his re-election events, being moved by his words, like "Vote early...and vote often!" and "Even dead people deserve a vote!" It was awesome.

[checkymcfold 0]

This is exactly what I'm taking about. I say I am not a racist and that makes me a closet racist?

you don't get my point, apparently. i mean that you're willing to suggest that reading accusations of racism into obama's speeches is perfectly valid without allowing readers of your own statements the same interpretive leeway.i'm pointing to the fact that doing so is hilariously hypocritical. i happen to find your accusations of obama's playing the subtle race card and my satirical psychoanalytical accusation above equally stupid. sorry if that went over your head.

[hblask 1]

>he's talking about drastically limiting the amount of influence that lobbyists have in washington and trying to refocus the source of political power from the campaign contributor back to the voter. you do see that these things are different, right?

So he thinks he can dramatically increase the size of the federal government, while at the same time reducing the influence of money in Washington? If he really believes this he's hopelessly naive. If he doesn't believe it, he just another lying politician who will say anything to get elected.

[checkymcfold 0]

i'm a libertarian and think that government is inherently disempowering to the individual.

yes, i know. and you know that i disagree with this assumption. :)obama's point here (and this is something with which i agree, generally) is that you can restructure the way that government functions in such a way that you can retain its basic form without disenfranchising the less well-to-do voters in a populace.

[gradin123 0]

you don't get my point, apparently. i mean that you're willing to suggest that reading accusations of racism into obama's speeches is perfectly valid without allowing readers of your own statements the same interpretive leeway.i'm pointing to the fact that doing so is hilariously hypocritical. i happen to find your accusations of obama's playing the subtle race card and my satirical psychoanalytical accusation above equally stupid. sorry if that went over your head.

I never said any parts of Obama's speeches contain any racism.I'm talking about the Obama reps on CNN and such that keep bringing up race as an issue in a subtle way"Sen. Obama's support among working, hard-working Americans, white Americans, is weakening again." Polls showed "how whites in both states who had not completed college were supporting me.""There is a pattern emerging here," Clinton said."There is indeed a pattern emerging," replied left wing columnist Joe Conason. "And it is a pattern that must dismay everyone who admires the Clintons and has defended them against the charge that they are exploiting racial divisions."So because she talks about white working class voters voting for her that mean she isexploting racial divisions or playing the race card?IT is a fact white working class voters are voting for her and the majority of them are not racist. Some may be but she was not trying to exploit racial divisions she was just try to point out where Obama's weakness lies. She definitely could have said it more eloquently but she was trying to say that the so called Reagan Democrats(ie White Working class) are supporting her over Obama and that he is not connecting with them.My point is that the Obama camp play what I would call the REVERSE RACE CARD. Which means they accuse Hillary in that now famous quote of playing the race card or exploiting racial divisions. But really they are the ones injecting racism into that conversation by jumping one poorly worded quote and accusing her of exploiting racial divisions.

[Loismustdie 0]

yes, exactly. i still don't understand wtf your point is. this whole process is perfectly legal, if a little undesirable.

True. I would personally as an agent of change maybe not use them?

[Balloon guy 158]

the argument goes like this:chicago politics have such and such scandals, associated with persons x, y, and z.

Agree

these scandals lack comparable counterparts in other major urban centers (hint: They don't )

That's racist

ergo, chicago politics is especially corrupt.

Ditto

i'm still unclear as to why obama is corrupt.

Basically, you can't spend as much time with the Clintons as he has been for the last few months and not become dirtier for it.Plus there's that Rezko money deal.The rest of the dirt we are saving. We are waiting to see if he can EVER defeat Hillary. For crying out loud the guy has 'won' in every single paper, and yet lost WV by over 40%?????? I thought the Demoncrat party wanted to finish this for the party unity? Yet they are apperently saying..."Wait, maybe Obama isn't a the best we can do?"But the republicans are not going to tip our hat and spread the dirt on Obama until he FINALLY cruches the Clintons once and for all.Question: Who is the happiest that Obama is going to win the Dem nomination?Answer: All the women that Bill has and is sleeping with, because if Hillary won, you know the Bimbo Eruption commitee she used to head would be working full time to keep the many women Bill has been cheating on Hillary with under the blanket. so to speak.

[Balloon guy 158]

I used to work for Daley (way down the chain) as an analyst with the City of Chicago. He's a great promoter (everyone votes for him election after election just because the cost of removing his name from every sign and placard in the city would cost too much). And sure, he puts his friends in the right places. But bottom line, he's an effective and inspiring leader. Why, it seems like just yesterday I was at one of his re-election events, being moved by his words, like "Vote early...and vote often!" and "Even dead people deserve a vote!" It was awesome.

Plus what he did to Meigs will make me always hope he goes to prison for a crime he didn't commit.

[Balloon guy 158]

you don't get my point, apparently. i mean that you're willing to suggest that reading accusations of racism into obama's speeches is perfectly valid without allowing readers of your own statements the same interpretive leeway.i'm pointing to the fact that doing so is hilariously hypocritical. i happen to find your accusations of obama's playing the subtle race card and my satirical psychoanalytical accusation above equally stupid. sorry if that went over your head.

What qualifies you to psycholanalysis anyone?The fact that you are a closet racist?Or are you denying the fact you are a racist?