12 replies to this topic

[Money022]

A few hands ago I was involved in a pot with position on this same opponent and he donk lead into me after limp calling on a 9 high flop. Here it folds to him on the button and he raises to $4. SB folds and I repop him to $15 and he calls. What's the best decision on the flop?


PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (9 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

SB ($54.10)
Hero ($121.65)
UTG ($21)
UTG+1 ($64.45)
MP1 ($28.75)
MP2 ($98)
MP3 ($68.90)
CO ($230.20)
Button ($97.55)

Preflop: Hero is BB with , .
6 folds, Button raises to $4, 1 fold, Hero raises to $15, Button calls $11.

Flop: ($30.50) , , (2 players)
Hero ?

[tskillz187]

Bet $22 and be done with the hand.

[Temporary Nuts]

Bet $22 and be done with the hand.

I like 25-26 since the board is so wet... and that's how I would bet my entire range on this hand... but agree for the most part.

[Farmboyz]

You probably shouldn't play around too much here, unless you are positive that he's got air. Is he raising too much from the button? Even so, hands like A6 or KT or K9 are reasonable stealing hands. I say start with a check.

If he bets $10 or less, you can call. Check the turn, and see what he does. A turn bet probably means your beat. If he bets medium or high, then you can chuck it with minimal losses.

Leading out here seems completely wrong. You're setting yourself up for a re-raise. If that happens what are you going to do? It's too expensive. You can acquire that info for less money by checking.

So, if you think he's bluffing, then YOU need to be the one re-raising. The check-raise puts his stack in a world of hurt. If you're right, and he keeps calling then all you need to really worry about is a Queen or a PP finding a set.

[Metternich]

This isn't live, so reads are not a major factor here. We can't check, if we check then we basically narrow our range to what we have (a decent PP seeing a board with 2 overs) and much more rarely a monster hand (set, AK). If we check he bets 100% of the time and we have to fold, losing the hand.

If we lead and he reraises then we fold, but most of the time we lead he will fold. Its a more profitable move.

[TrueAce13]

Bet flop. Fold if any action occurs that doesn't involve a jack hitting the turn. Next hand.

[simo_8ball]

See, this is a situation where you cannot define a bet as a value bet or a bluff.

No worse hand is calling (and if it does, it's likely to win the pot on a later street), and very few better hands will fold. Here, if you need to define it, I'd say you are protecting your equity in the pot.

[potatoman]

Well, tells aren't going to help us much, but knowing our villain tendencies would help us a bit.

I know what I'm not doing. I'm not check calling...

Bet fold or check fold.

Betting, and then folding to any further betting is probably the more profitable play..although...you can't be giving up a whole lot with an ugly flop like that one.

[mtdesmoines]

Well, tells aren't going to help us much, but knowing our villain tendencies would help us a bit.

I know what I'm not doing. I'm not check calling...

Bet fold or check fold.

Betting, and then folding to any further betting is probably the more profitable play..although...you can't be giving up a whole lot with an ugly flop like that one.

I have experimented with check-calling here.
I have check-called/led the turn with amazing results.

[DonkSlayer]

I have experimented with check-calling here.
I have check-called/led the turn resulting in amazing variance.

FYP

[Money022]

Okay so I did the exact opposite. I was leaning towards check fold here, but he checked behind on the flop. I can't imagine he's trying to trap me here, smaller pocket pair?


PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (9 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

SB ($54.10)
Hero ($121.65)
UTG ($21)
UTG+1 ($64.45)
MP1 ($28.75)
MP2 ($98)
MP3 ($68.90)
CO ($230.20)
Button ($97.55)

Preflop: Hero is BB with , .
6 folds, Button raises to $4, 1 fold, Hero raises to $15, Button calls $11.

Flop: ($30.50) , , (2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks.

Turn: ($30.50) (2 players)
Hero bets $15

[Chris E]

I like check-folding tbh. What is calling our reraise that we beat other than maybe 9s or 10s. That is assuming that he is a competent player and is not playing back at you.

[AimHigher]

I like 25-26 since the board is so wet... and that's how I would bet my entire range on this hand... but agree for the most part.

When you say the board is wet, are you saying it's wet because of the straight draw and flush draw, or are you saying it's wet because it collided with his range like an iceberg and the titanic?

If you're saying we should bet more because of the straight and flush draw, then that doesn't make much sense because none of the hands in his range can be on a straight or flush draw. If you're saying we should bet more because the board connects with his range, then that doesn't make any sense either.

Let's say his range is AJ+, 99 - QQ. I don't think he shows up with AA/KK ever.

So, if we bet, all the Ax hands are raising or flatting and all the pairs are folding. There are 19 combos of pairs vs 33 combos of Ax hands. So pairs make up 36% of his range. (19 / 52 = 0.36).

Doesn't that mean any time we put in more than $17 we are making a -EV bet? I think this is why this is another one of those flops (like in TrueAce's thread) that we should be betting less on, as opposed to more.