Big Fold/awful Fold?

[DonkSlayer 1]

Previous hand, UTG+1 minraised and got 5 callers, and I pushed from the BB with QQ and everyone folded, UTG+1 typed "nh". No other reads. I was pretty much lost the whole hand and folded because I felt my equity against both villains was awful.PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (8 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)saw flop|saw showdownUTG+1 (t1630)MP1 (t1325)MP2 (t1075)CO (t1320)Button (t3015)Hero (t2080)BB (t1455)UTG (t1600)Preflop: Hero is SB with , . 1 fold, UTG+1 raises to t60, 3 folds, Button calls t60, Hero calls t45, 1 fold.Flop: (t210) , , (3 players)Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, Button bets t90, Hero calls t90, UTG+1 raises to t300, Button calls t210, Hero folds.

[copernicus 0]

You got the perfect flop and folded, then why play it pre-flop? Get it all in vs Ax, where its highly unlikely that x is a paired card.

[Poker Addict 0]

You got the perfect flop and folded, then why play it pre-flop? Get it all in vs Ax, where its highly unlikely that x is a paired card.

QFT!!!!!! Shove!Oh, and button has a flush draw I think a lot here. We would like to get rid of him. But who knows if he will go.

[donk4life 34]

Once again, you're calling with junk OOP.. why?Even if it is a minraise PF, you're playing J8 in the worst position in poker...I would lead out this flop for 90... As played, shove, you got what you wanted, folding here is bad..

[Poker Addict 0]

Yeah, wondering how you checked this flop without intending to check raise/get it in? If you lead it plays much differently. I lead bigger then half the pot but that's me. I think that is a pretty action rich board.

[copernicus 0]

Once again, you're calling with junk OOP.. why?Even if it is a minraise PF, you're playing J8 in the worst position in poker...I would lead out this flop for 90... As played, shove, you got what you wanted, folding here is bad..

Youre calling with junk OOP because1. implied odds are good2. junk hands play themselves when they hit, even OOP. The tough hands to play OOP are the ones that are difficult to fold even when you miss or catch a small piece.

[DonkSlayer 1]

Yeah, wondering how you checked this flop without intending to check raise/get it in? If you lead it plays much differently. I lead bigger then half the pot but that's me. I think that is a pretty action rich board.

Yeah. I was going to c/r the first villain, then I wanted to c/r the turn instead when button bet and I figured UTG would go away. This is a tourney where everyone plays pretty tight until you get to last 5. Do we really think we have the best hand here a lot?Copernicus, I can't share your optimism that a big Ace from UTG c/r this flushy/straighty flop.

[DonkSlayer 1]

Youre calling with junk OOP because1. implied odds are good2. junk hands play themselves when they hit, even OOP. The tough hands to play OOP are the ones that are difficult to fold even when you miss or catch a small piece.

Ty. I fold A10off and KJoff in this same situation often.

[jmbreslin 0]

Youre calling with junk OOP because1. implied odds are good2. junk hands play themselves when they hit, even OOP. The tough hands to play OOP are the ones that are difficult to fold even when you miss or catch a small piece.

Yeah but J8o is real junk. There's no flush draw potential, very unlikely straight draw potential, you can't flop a set, so you're pretty much calling the raise in the hopes of flopping 2P. And this is a Step SnG, where tight ABC poker early is especially important.

[Sheiky 0]

FoldPre

[Poker Addict 0]

Copernicus, I can't share your optimism that a big Ace from UTG c/r this flushy/straighty flop.

Ahhh, so you are thinking that the c/r has AJ, A8 or trips here? It's definitely possible.

[gobears 0]

I fold pre - I'll play a one-gapper to a min-raise but not a two gapper. As for A10/KJ, I'd call in the SB if it's cheap since there's a shot at broadway.I would check/raise the flop. However, if UTG+1 then 3-bet, it'd be an interesting decision. His min-raise pre and then check/3-bet on the flop would be extremely strong. AA would enter the equation. A normal big ace probably fires a CB. Other player is probably on a draw if he just calls the raise.As played, it's tougher as EP sees a bet by the player with last action and then a call. He might figure that both of you are weak or on a draw. It's still a strong line to check/raise into a bet/call post flop when he could have just lead the flop. I probably get it in as why play J8o and then fold when we hit the flop? AA wouldn't surprise me though as it has to be in his range.

[TrueAce13 18]

You got the perfect flop and folded, then why play it pre-flop? Get it all in vs Ax, where its highly unlikely that x is a paired card.

QFT!!!!!! Shove!Oh, and button has a flush draw I think a lot here. We would like to get rid of him. But who knows if he will go.

Copernicus, I can't share your optimism that a big Ace from UTG c/r this flushy/straighty flop.

Everything said by them is true. You hit your flop. I agree with the PF fold, but since you called and hit. What is going through your mind to fold now?

[Berwatchey 0]

it seems likely one could have a hand like 9 10 and be open ended, but one of them has a made hand and its decent for sure. this is a tough spot. you did in fact hit the flop you wanted to hit. but with the bet and re raise your almost certainly gonna be facing an all in on the turn regardless of the card.normally it would be likely that they are drawing...step 1, the play is alot more loose. but here and with the loser getting didly, i dont think someones gonna be risking this many chips without a made hand.i like the step format, step 3's only start giving rewards at 5th right? in a different structure you can't walk i think. but here its early and you have plenty of chips. fold and let them tussle. i like the play here. but i think it's definately structure dependant.

Edited April 30, 2008 by Berwatchey