Facing An Odd Line

[BudBundy 0]

Full Tilt PokerPot Limit Omaha Ring gameBlinds: $0.25/$0.506 playersConverterPre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG with :D Hero raises to $1.75, 3 folds, SB raises to $3, BB calls, Hero calls.Flop: ($9, 3 players)SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets $7, SB calls, BB folds.Turn: ($23, 2 players)SB bets $11.5, HeroSb is 57/24/1.30 over 1k hands

[bdc30 0]

Converter's missing stack sizes, but I'll assume full stack for both. I have a very hard time not shovelling here, but with this line that he's taken, I don't know what he's got. With a 57/24 I don't think you can narrow his 3bet range to aces..maybe 5678 with hearts or something that's just picked up a draw?

[BudBundy 0]

Stacks are aprox :me : $65him : $100

[antistuff 0]

if he has aces he is the most brilliant retard ever.edit: sort of.this just feels so obvious that he has aces when you look at the hand like this. in reality a line like this will get him paid off by all sorts of crap.

[dingas 0]

He has aces ALOT here. Nothing else really makes sense given his line - I mean, if he flopped a flush draw or something, then he would bet the flop to represent aces..And for you to bet the flop into a preflop re-raiser you have to have a hand, so why would he try to bluff you on a blank turn?

[bdc30 0]

If he has aces, he should be repopping this flop 97.7% of the time. The other 2.3% of the time, he should have exactly AAQJ with hearts, so that he covers top set, the straight draw and the flush draw. Thus, I think we're good here still.

[antistuff 0]

If he has aces, he should be repopping this flop 97.7% of the time. The other 2.3% of the time, he should have exactly AAQJ with hearts, so that he covers top set, the straight draw and the flush draw. Thus, I think we're good here still.

which is exactly why we aren'tedit: "flipping" your hand over and then making a big bet is a great way to get loose calls, because who in their right mind would flip their hand over and expect to get paid.

[dingas 0]

If he has aces, he should be repopping this flop 97.7% of the time. The other 2.3% of the time, he should have exactly AAQJ with hearts, so that he covers top set, the straight draw and the flush draw. Thus, I think we're good here still.

In fact, I think villain's line would be a pretty decent line to take with AA and the nut flush draw. If the flush hits on the turn, he knows you are drawing dead, so he can check and go for the check-raise. When a blank hits, he can bet and you'll be confused and might get it in in a bad spot. And I really don't see what other hands he would play this way.. maybe like A457 or 5678 with hearts, but with these hands, I think he semi-bluff bets the flop most of the time.

[bdc30 0]

Ok bundy, ship the results, imo.

[antistuff 0]

i'll bet up to $25 it was aces, any takers? (reply and PM before any results are posted).

[BudBundy 0]

Waiting for antistuff's bet to be taken and Simo (and iggy hopefully) to post for results.

[Merby 3]

Waiting for antistuff's bet to be taken and Simo (and iggy hopefully) to post for results. Heck, this'll give Merby an opportunity to throw his opinion to the mix too...

FYPI have seen this line a lot with middle or bottom set. Top set (aces) is currently the nuts on the flop, so he is far more likely to repop the flop. Bottom and middle set, however, are good hands that are ruined by a lot of turn cards... and he might fear you have aces.Since you have middle set, I put him on (in descending order of likelihood):1) A set of 6's2) A flush draw that improved to a combo draw (like [567 8 ], and he is trying to do a blocker bet on the turn to see a cheap river.3) A set of acesObviously, you should always play against a range, and I am happy shoveling against this range. If I were to put a *vote* in on what the opponent had, I would say he has a set of 6's.

[bdc30 0]

I discount 6's because he 3-bet preflop. Not many hands with 66xx in them do that, especially when he'll be out of position.It's such an odd line that if it is aces, you almost have to pay it off - like Antistuff said, chalk him up to the most brilliant retard ever and get it back from him later.

[antistuff 0]

FYPI have seen this line a lot with middle or bottom set. Top set (aces) is currently the nuts on the flop, so he is far more likely to repop the flop. Bottom and middle set, however, are good hands that are ruined by a lot of turn cards... and he might fear you have aces.Since you have middle set, I put him on (in descending order of likelihood):1) A set of 6's2) A flush draw that improved to a combo draw (like [567 8 ], and he is trying to do a blocker bet on the turn to see a cheap river.3) A set of acesObviously, you should always play against a range, and I am happy shoveling against this range. If I were to put a *vote* in on what the opponent had, I would say he has a set of 6's.

you've seen somebody three bet preflop from the blinds and then take that line postflop with middle or bottom set?i will seriously eat my hat. and i don't wash my hair very often. so thats like, really gross.

[Merby 3]

you've seen somebody three bet preflop from the blinds and then take that line postflop with middle or bottom set?i will seriously eat my hat. and i don't wash my hair very often. so thats like, really gross.

I missed the preflop line, and that decreases the likelihood that he has bottom set (and increases the likelihood that he picked up a touch and improved on the turn). That being said, the villain is 57/24 preflop, and it is not unusual for such villains to make interesting 3-bets from the blinds. I had one opponent who seemed to play normally preflop, except in the blinds where he would literally 3-bet any late position raise preflop.It is important to note that some 57/24 players are aggressively opening the pot for a raise, but tend to 3-bet infrequently whereas others are no more selective when choosing hands to 3-bet as they would when choosing hands to open a pot.

[BigLebowski 0]

Why couldn't villain 3-bet here with a saucy hand to find out what range hero has? Wouldn't you expect hero to raise AAxx pf, especially if BB calls your weak 3-bet out of the SB? I think villain has 2p and flush draw and thinks hero's only hand that beats him is KK and he is betting against hero's range here.Shipples

[BudBundy 0]

He had AA84 without the A of hearts.

[BigLebowski 0]

He had AA84 without the A of hearts.

So how did you find out and what was your thought process?

[bdc30 0]

So how did you find out and what was your thought process?

By calling, obv, because his thought process was the same as most of ours.lol

[BudBundy 0]

Well i thought aces wouldn't play it like that. If had naked aces , he would at least checkraise flop to defend his hand against the flush. On turn that half pot lead really didn't make any sense at all to me. Turn card is so safe , he could easily go for a check raise with aces + nut flush draw. I actually put him on two pairs w nut flush draw on turn. So i repotted.FWIW i think his line is a losing line.

[BigLebowski 0]

Well i thought aces wouldn't play it like that. If had naked aces , he would at least checkraise flop to defend his hand against the flush. On turn that half pot lead really didn't make any sense at all to me. Turn card is so safe , he could easily go for a check raise with aces + nut flush draw. I actually put him on two pairs w nut flush draw on turn. So i repotted.FWIW i think his line is a losing line.

Well, there's your problem right there. You thought exactly how I did which makes you an automatic loser at this game.

By calling, obv, because his thought process was the same as most of ours.lol

Hey now, he still had $55 behind so it def could have played out differently than re-pot.