17 replies to this topic

[DeVelaine]

I've noticed a disturbing trend these days playing LHE: people not raising preflop with AA, KK, or QQ. Sometimes I'll catch someone who just doesn't raise preflop with anything, but that's insanely rare. Flat calling with them when someone else raises does make sense in some spots, but not when no one has raised the pot at all. I guess I just don't get this trend.

I've only seen it lately, so it may just be something players at the lowest limits do, but my real question is why do it at all? Only reasonable answer is to attempt to trap, but if you don't raise with kings or queens, you invite overcards to limp in and bust you on the flop when you don't hit your set. And even with aces... Not raising... That puts more hands in play against you - especially at lower limits where players are more likely to limp with a hand that they would fold to a raise... You're just inviting disaster.

Is this something anyone else has seen or has any insight to? As far as I'm concerned not raising with these cards preflop is a stupid play, because you end up with too many callers, and your edge in the hand is greatly diminished if you don't hit a set.

[MrLucy]

This could be way off but it might be that they know someone in later position is likly to raise so they dont have to.
If I find this at a table I am at I will smooth call big hands at times, more often AK but at times KK or AA.
However this is probably not the best play.
MrLucy

[Lucoo_]

These people are just incredibly stupid, and most of them only have enough brain cells to remember where the call/suckout button is

[Zach6668]

Congrats to these people for winning less with their AA and KK.

There's literally no reason not to simply raise preflop for value. You won't be able to make up the lost value from just calling preflop by disguising your hand.

[DeVelaine]

This could be way off but it might be that they know someone in later position is likly to raise so they dont have to.
If I find this at a table I am at I will smooth call big hands at times, more often AK but at times KK or AA.
However this is probably not the best play.

Well... As I said, sometimes calling someone else's raise with these hands is a good idea. Otherwise, it's like you're throwing money away. Yes, aces are an 85% favorite over any random hand. But that's one random hand. By not raising, more people want to see the flop, and your advantage drops into a very mortal range quickly (about 55% when there's 4 other people).

Only conclusion I can come to is that these people are either brain dead, or trying to trap NLHE-style in a game with the opposite style of play. All I can do is flag them with notes, I guess, and tread carefully around them until they stop being stupid.

[Zach6668]

Well... As I said, sometimes calling someone else's raise with these hands is a good idea. Otherwise, it's like you're throwing money away. Yes, aces are an 85% favorite over any random hand. But that's one random hand. By not raising, more people want to see the flop, and your advantage drops into a very mortal range quickly (about 55% when there's 4 other people).

Only conclusion I can come to is that these people are either brain dead, or trying to trap NLHE-style in a game with the opposite style of play. All I can do is flag them with notes, I guess, and tread carefully around them until they stop being stupid.

Almost never. As in, I've never done it in my life.

[RabidTortuga]

I've been seeing people who won't raise with big pairs for as long as i've been playing poker. What I have been seeing lately that's new and sort of silly at limit is lots of limp/reraising with AA and KK. I've noted this on more than 20 players at .50/1 in the past week. It's so strange.

[Actuary]

my head exploded.

[drcossack]

Almost never. As in, I've never done it in my life.

I've flatted with KK once in NL, but I ran into AA anyway. The money went in on the turn.

I've been seeing people who won't raise with big pairs for as long as i've been playing poker. What I have been seeing lately that's new and sort of silly at limit is lots of limp/reraising with AA and KK. I've noted this on more than 20 players at .50/1 in the past week. It's so strange.

I got limp/raised so freaking often in satellite SnG's during the higher blind levels in the past week and a half.

Typical situation:

I'd have something like A5 4 handed with 200/400 blinds. Someone with 1800 would limp, I'd raise to 1200, person raises allin. Umm, durr. Worst part: I didn't win about 60% of them.

If you're going to limp/shove during the pushbot stages of a SnG, wouldn't it make more sense to just openshove anyway?

[DeVelaine]

Almost never. As in, I've never done it in my life.

I think I've done it once. But that was with jacks. And it saved me a ton as I would have been up against aces, who lost to 77 hitting a set on the flop.

[navybuttons]

IS THIS THREAD FOR REAL????!!!??

[wsox8]

This hand make me think of this thread.


Absolute Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $0.50/$1
5 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is BB with 3 6
3 folds, SB calls, Hero checks.

Flop: T 7 8 (2SB, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

Turn: 3 (1BB, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

River: 7 (1BB, 2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

Results:
Final pot: 3BB
SB Shows Ks Kd

[antistuff]

Almost never. As in, I've never done it in my life.

i have an example. hopefully ill remember to post it here tomorrow.

[Zach6668]

Goot. I'm certain there's a spot for it here or there, but not enough to ever really worry about it. I'd like to see your spot, though.

[Gmen869007]

They're just tight/weak morons who think they're being tricky. When they win a pot this way they feel like they got over on the people who outplay them on pretty much every other hand. They also dump hands like JJ QQ KK the second an overcard hits.

It's just a sick, unprofitable approach to poker. These people think that they shouldn't put much money into the pot until the odds are overwhelmingly in their favor. They're just too stupid to understand why those hands need to be playedd aggressively.

It's annoying when someone pulls this crap on you, but don't let it bother you. Just make a note of them.

[DonkSlayer]

Not raising for value with AA-QQ is just reverse-spew money hating.

Sometimes I don't 3-bet with AQ/JJ/1010/99 in the SB or don't cap in the BB if it's been 3-bet.

[pbwl11]

I'll admit that I do tend to limp in with AA or KK. but it's only when I'm in the blinds.
All the regulars at the B&M I play with know I'm a tight solid player, and when I raised out of the blinds, they knew I had something big, and fold to my bets, so I took to limping in the blinds, then betting or check raising on the flop.
I know it's losing money this way, but it happens so rarely that I can change my play and try to catch them off guard.
Although now when they see me check the blind, they get suspicious if I bet out......

[Zach6668]

Stop making plays that you know are -EV.

That post was the most ridiculous thing I've read. You show that you know something is wrong, yet still argue that you should do it because it happens rarely? The whole thing about LHE is to repeatedly make plays with small edges that add up in the long run.