42 replies to this topic

[HollywoodAFD]

Just kidding...I knew BigD would like that one.

Anyhoo... the purpose of this thread is a selfish one. I feel like writing what I believe about the prophecies. Attack me all you want.... then refer back to the word believe.
These are some of the reasons I am a believer that Jesus is the mesiah.
To say Jesus fulfilled ALL of the prophecies would just be to vague of an answer if I left it at that. There are over 400 prophecies in the Old Testament which point to the coming Messiah and to His life and death. Jesus Christ perfectly fulfilled every single one of them. The odds of someone doing that who was not the Messiah are too great to even figure. In A Case for Christ...I think that's where I read it... to put this feat into an imaginable sense.. imagine you covered the entire State of Texas in 50 cent pieces so deep it came up to your knees. And in that pile, there was ONE 50 cent piece with a black dot on it. You then place a blind man in Austin and tell him to find the coin and he has only one try. That's the same odds as one person fulfilling all of these prophecies.
Now the counter to that is.... 'uh-uh' or 'well..he could have read the prophecies and THEN fulfilled them... or the deciples didn't write about this until bla bla bla and King James re-wrote and so on so on.

Psalm 41:9 even foretells Judas' betrayal, "Yea, mine own familiar friend, in whom I trusted, which did eat of my bread, hath lifted up his heel against me." And Zechariah 11:12 perfectly predicts the payment Judas would receive, "And I said unto them, if ye think good, give me my price thirty pieces of silver."

Jesus' death on the cross was prophesied to the smallest detail. Isaiah 53 spoke of His sacrificial death paying the price for the sins of all. Psalm 109:25 tells that He would be mocked by those who watched. Psalm 34:20 records the miracle that would happen when none of His bones were broken. Psalm 22:18 says that people would gamble for possession of His clothing. Psalm 31:5 contains the words that Jesus said when He committed His spirit into His Father's hands. Isaiah 53:12 says that He would plead for the forgiveness of those who persecuted Him.

If you are simply not looking for a god or not wanting a god...I can see denial of all of this. If you are questioning the validity of Christ... I think you should read the gospel accounts of His life and death.

[speedz99]

Well, that was at least somewhat interesting.

The odds of someone doing that who was not the Messiah are too great to even figure. In A Case for Christ...I think that's where I read it... to put this feat into an imaginable sense.. imagine you covered the entire State of Texas in 50 cent pieces so deep it came up to your knees. And in that pile, there was ONE 50 cent piece with a black dot on it. You then place a blind man in Austin and tell him to find the coin and he has only one try. That's the same odds as one person fulfilling all of these prophecies.

It's science!

Now the counter to that is.... 'uh-uh' or 'well..he could have read the prophecies and THEN fulfilled them... or the deciples didn't write about this until bla bla bla and King James re-wrote and so on so on.

Usually when you write a counter-argument you're supposed to follow up by saying why the people who think this would be incorrect.

Psalm 41:9 even foretells Judas' betrayal, "Yea, mine own familiar friend, in whom I trusted, which did eat of my bread, hath lifted up his heel against me." And Zechariah 11:12 perfectly predicts the payment Judas would receive, "And I said unto them, if ye think good, give me my price thirty pieces of silver."

Jesus' death on the cross was prophesied to the smallest detail. Isaiah 53 spoke of His sacrificial death paying the price for the sins of all. Psalm 109:25 tells that He would be mocked by those who watched. Psalm 34:20 records the miracle that would happen when none of His bones were broken. Psalm 22:18 says that people would gamble for possession of His clothing. Psalm 31:5 contains the words that Jesus said when He committed His spirit into His Father's hands. Isaiah 53:12 says that He would plead for the forgiveness of those who persecuted Him.

What are the contexts for these lines? Are they actually supposed to be prophesies? Or are they random excerpts that, taken a sentence or two at a time, completely out of context can match up to JC's life? Because I'm pretty sure that I could look through the Lord of the Rings trilogy and pick out 400 "prophesies" that seem to describe my life.

[HollywoodAFD]

Well, that was at least somewhat interesting.
It's science!
Usually when you write a counter-argument you're supposed to follow up by saying why the people who think this would be incorrect.
What are the contexts for these lines? Are they actually supposed to be prophesies? Or are they random excerpts that, taken a sentence or two at a time, completely out of context can match up to JC's life? Because I'm pretty sure that I could look through the Lord of the Rings trilogy and pick out 400 "prophesies" that seem to describe my life.

I can't. I'm not trying to prove that I am correct nor that someone who believes differently than me is incorrect.

This isn't a debate that can be won or lost. It's like if I said "Burger King hamburgers taste good to me." -- You could counter with "They don't taste good to me but you couldn't say, with validity, "No they don't" because I believe they are good.

Make sense.


Trust me... I'm not trying to win an arguement... I accept and understand non-believers points. I accept you as a non-believer and would still go have wings with you.

This was just something I wanted to throw out there because it's interesting to me.

And if you looked through the Lord of the Rings and there were only 400 prophecies and each and every one of those described your life...I'd say that was pretty cool.


What's your view on Islam?

[crowTrobot]

This isn't a debate that can be won or lost. It's like if I said "Burger King hamburgers taste good to me." -- You could counter with "They don't taste good to me but you couldn't say, with validity, "No they don't" because I believe they are good.

the fact that fulfilled messianic prophecy tasted good to you doesn't make it true. it's an empirical claim - no wiggle room for subjective truth. it's either empirically true or it's false, and the debate can absolutely be won or lost.

[speedz99]

And if you looked through the Lord of the Rings and there were only 400 prophecies and each and every one of those described your life...I'd say that was pretty cool.

I agree, it would be pretty cool. I don't know much about the prophesies, which is why I asked about the context. You make it sound like there was a numbered list of "things that will happen" in a part of the Old Testament. I'm guessing that's not the full truth...I'm just curious about how these prophesies were extracted from the text.

What's your view on Islam?

Without knowing much about it...I'd say that it's probably extremely similar to Christianity. One God, a main leader that was sent to Earth to provide God's message, some crazy fundamentalists that use their religion to foster bigotry and psychotic behavior, many wonderful true believers who use their religion as a jumping-off point to do great things, etc. Am I close?

[Spademan]

Someone will die tomorrow.

[Loismustdie]

Someone will die tomorrow.

Someone will eat as well.

[Loismustdie]

I agree, it would be pretty cool. I don't know much about the prophesies, which is why I asked about the context. You make it sound like there was a numbered list of "things that will happen" in a part of the Old Testament. I'm guessing that's not the full truth...I'm just curious about how these prophesies were extracted from the text.
Without knowing much about it...I'd say that it's probably extremely similar to Christianity. One God, a main leader that was sent to Earth to provide God's message, some crazy fundamentalists that use their religion to foster bigotry and psychotic behavior, many wonderful true believers who use their religion as a jumping-off point to do great things, etc. Am I close?

Speedz, great question. Give me a few days to put together a prophecy thread and we will have some fun. I expect to be bashed accordingly and treated like a red headed step child.

All you posers, in the event you put together a prophesy thread as well, it will be a mere tribute to the awesomeness that will be my prophesy thread. So, go ahead and start one, just keep that in mind.

[crowTrobot]

i should put together a jewish prophecy thread, since they more or less use the same OT passages and apapt them to jewish history - frequently inserting the hebrew nation or isreal where christians use jesus. seems to make the same amount of sense either way.

[Loismustdie]

i should put together a jewish prophecy thread, since they more or less use the same OT passages and apapt them to jewish history - frequently inserting the hebrew nation or isreal where christians use jesus. seems to make the same amount of sense either way.

I like that. I don't know what it will accomplish, but I like it.

[speedz99]

Speedz, great question. Give me a few days to put together a prophecy thread and we will have some fun. I expect to be bashed accordingly and treated like a red headed step child.

All you posers, in the event you put together a prophesy thread as well, it will be a mere tribute to the awesomeness that will be my prophesy thread. So, go ahead and start one, just keep that in mind.

I hope you aren't kidding. For some reason I'm especially interested in this topic. Yeah, I expect to end up ridiculing it, but there's that 1% of me that hopes it'll actually be a series of kind of incredible coincidences.

[BigDMcGee]

There is only one true prophet in history, and he's alive today..

[LongLiveYorke]

You know what? As of last night, I was very sure that Al Green was dead. I ended up losing a bet about it. Turns out, uh, he's not. And I learned something.

[speedz99]

There is only one true prophet in history, and he's alive today..

The outtakes from negrodamus are fucking hilarious.

[Mercury69]

Jesus drives a Bugatti

[Loismustdie]

You know what? As of last night, I was very sure that Al Green was dead. I ended up losing a bet about it. Turns out, uh, he's not. And I learned something.

Well, I lost my LLY doesn't know that Al Green is alive bet. Monies shipped.

Thanks for nothing.

[BuffDan]

Imagine that; the gospel writers who in their book are trying to convince other Jews that Jesus is the Messiah figured it would be a good idea to tell people that he fulfilled the prophesies of the Messiah. Now, if you could show me how their book was true and accurate without using that very book to justify it, then we would have something...

[Balloon guy]

Imagine that; the gospel writers who in their book are trying to convince other Jews that Jesus is the Messiah figured it would be a good idea to tell people that he fulfilled the prophesies of the Messiah.

Then went on to live lifes of poverty and cruel deaths without ever saying: "Hey, we were just kidding". Many were tortured, never had wealth, never had power, never had anything but the words of this 'story' they made up, all 12 of them.


Now, if you could show me how their book was true and accurate without using that very book to justify it, then we would have something...

FYP

[crowTrobot]

Imagine that; the gospel writers who in their book are trying to convince other Jews that Jesus is the Messiah figured it would be a good idea to tell people that he fulfilled the prophesies of the Messiah.

Then went on to live lifes of poverty and cruel deaths without ever saying: "Hey, we were just kidding". Many were tortured, never had wealth, never had power, never had anything but the words of this 'story' they made up, all 12 of them.


Now, if you could show me how their book was true and accurate without using that very book to justify it, then we would have something...

note the condition you just ignored. the bible can't be used as corroborating evidence for itself (to state the obvious).

[HollywoodAFD]

the fact that fulfilled messianic prophecy tasted good to you doesn't make it true. it's an empirical claim - no wiggle room for subjective truth. it's either empirically true or it's false, and the debate can absolutely be won or lost.

Crow...once again...show me where I said my beliefs are "true". You are so determined to disprove Christianity that you aren't sure how to take a person like myself.... that is content to accept your non-belief system. This isn't a debate, Crow. Would it make you feel better if I just said "OK, Crow...you're right and everyone else is wrong. If we can't bring God over to Crow's house and have a sit-down discussion...he, or she, doesn't exist and Crow is right."
How's that?

I agree, it would be pretty cool. I don't know much about the prophesies, which is why I asked about the context. You make it sound like there was a numbered list of "things that will happen" in a part of the Old Testament. I'm guessing that's not the full truth...I'm just curious about how these prophesies were extracted from the text.
Without knowing much about it...I'd say that it's probably extremely similar to Christianity. One God, a main leader that was sent to Earth to provide God's message, some crazy fundamentalists that use their religion to foster bigotry and psychotic behavior, many wonderful true believers who use their religion as a jumping-off point to do great things, etc. Am I close?

Speedz... when it comes to fulfilled prophecies, there are no-doubt some that appear a bit vague. The NB's like to have fun with things like "the Messiah will have 2 feet" ..>AHHHH....OOOHHHH.... look Jesus had 2 feet so he must be the messiah!
There's no list...not like one that people walked around with checking off things that they felt were completions of prophecies.
I'd be happy to point out some of these to you but knowing your normal cynicism I think I'll not take the bait.