1/2 Nl - Extracting Value With Middle Set

[Jadaki 1]

1/2 NL full ring live game.History: villain is a very solid and highly confident player, probably the best at the table. Makes moves in this game that no one else is capable of making, he is making a living playing 8-10 hours a day right now.Villain views Hero as a tight player and respects his play, but believes he can outplay him in any hand post flop.Villain stack = 1200+Hero stack = 850ishHero is MP2 with 9s9hUTG calls, UTG+1 folds, MP1 raises to 17, Hero calls, folds to button who calls, SB folds, BB folds, UTG calls.Flop (4 players, $67 pot) Qh 9c 4sUTG checks, Villain bets 75.00, Hero ???While making his bet, villain looks at UTG and declares that he has aces. Taking the villain at his word (thinking is that he built a huge stack, doesn't want to risk a bunch of it before going home), what line do you take to extract chips?

[Temporary Nuts 1]

I'd like to call since he overbet but I'd kick myself if a K or an 8 rolled off.Laugh at what he said and raise confidently to 225I think even if you flat the overbet UTG isn't coming along for the ride with anything he wouldn't play to a raise.He's not folding his aces, the thinks you don't believe him

[Sheiky 0]

Two words.Min.Raise.

[mtdesmoines 2]

1/2 NL full ring live game.History: villain is a very solid and highly confident player, probably the best at the table. Makes moves in this game that no one else is capable of making, he is making a living playing 8-10 hours a day right now.Villain views Hero as a tight player and respects his play, but believes he can outplay him in any hand post flop.Villain stack = 1200+Hero stack = 850ishHero is MP2 with 9s9hUTG calls, UTG+1 folds, MP1 raises to 17, Hero calls, folds to button who calls, SB folds, BB folds, UTG calls.Flop (4 players, $67 pot) Qh 9c 4sUTG checks, Villain bets 75.00, Hero ???While making his bet, villain looks at UTG and declares that he has aces. Taking the villain at his word (thinking is that he built a huge stack, doesn't want to risk a bunch of it before going home), what line do you take to extract chips?

Ignore what he says. PM me who the villain is. Smooth call here. The pot will be over 200 at the turn, possibly more. We're not folding any card, we're getting it all in by the river. So, we arrive at the turn. See what the villains lead for. If it's for 40% of your stack or more, shove.EDITOK. So I got excited because I know the place and left off half my post. If the turn bet is NOT for 40% of your stack or more, then bet 60-70% ish of pot. We're trying to get callers. We want this pot so so so swollen that no one can fold the river. We shove any river but 4 to a straight.

[Jadaki 1]

PM me who the villain is.

PM sent, if you play there at all you should know who it is. I don't think a day goes by he isn't there.

[tskillz187 0]

I'd raise to $200 and try and get him to put a move on me. If he sees you cold call $75 here he's gonna be pretty sure that you're big, might as well try and extract more money from real hands.

[NoBBiR 0]

=> $225.

[Jadaki 1]

I'd raise to $200 and try and get him to put a move on me. If he sees you cold call $75 here he's gonna be pretty sure that you're big, might as well try and extract more money from real hands.

This was the line I took.I'm just trying to get a feel on how people would try to extract maximum value in this situation.

[ROBBBIGG 0]

I'm thinking he bet big so he would know if you raised he's dead. In some games, the overbet on the flop means "I'm not folding and I've got a hand, but if you fold, that's ok" though. If villain views me as tight, I might cringe inside and smooth call that flop and then bet or raise the turn. I don't think the flop is too connected, but J10 would be an annoying hand for him to have if we just call the flop.

[Dictius 0]

I don't think he would fold top pair or an overpair if you raise the flop to $225, but he might just c/f the turn if you show further strength.But if we flat call he will probably be careful on further streets if you start betting hard.So which way will get more money into the pot?How about raise to $225 on the flop, check turn and c/r river?The problem this is that it gives him a free chance to hit a straight if he is drawing.or flat call flop and min c/r turn?min c/r on the turn looks very strong and he can easily fold.Raising the flop is probably best, he will probably call if he has anything and maybe reevaluate on the turn whether to bet again or check behind.

[Money022 0]

I would say, "You don't have aces and I'll prove it." At that time you raise to $225 and let his ego do the rest.Nice to see the opening raise at $1/$2 NL be for 8.5xbb.

[mtdesmoines 2]

I would say, "You don't have aces and I'll prove it." At that time you raise to $225 and let his ego do the rest.Nice to see the opening raise at $1/$2 NL be for 8.5xbb.

$12-$17 at PM is standard in the PM $1/$2 game and it will buy you three to five callers.EDITI disagree with the big flop raise. Likely no one is drawing. Likely they won't hit on the turn if they are. Likely we'll pair the board on the river anyway. So we're not going to put ANY thought into shutting down this hand. NONE at all. Our objective is to swell this pot gently -- a one-pair hand isn't shoving 600 BBs on the flop, unless the villain is a retard. Tripling a flop overbet is gonna scare the beejeezus out of anyone in on this hand. If we *cccaaaaaalllllll* the pot is STILL going to be well over $200 on the turn, and we still have AA involved. He's going to fire $150 - $200, he won't sit on his hand. If we call again, the river is an easy easy push. When we're dominating like this, thinking a couple streets ahead instead of trying to block a draw or get a one pair hand to shove 450 BBs with one pair is going to make us money. It's not soft-playing, it's keeping them in the hand, perpetuating their mistake in smaller, more palatable slices.

[Temporary Nuts 1]

I disagree with the big flop raise. Likely no one is drawing.

That's not why I'm scared of the K or 8you can add 3 queens to that as well.Which makes 11 cards we have to "dodge"

[mtdesmoines 2]

That's not why I'm scared of the K or 8you can add 3 queens to that as well.Which makes 11 cards we have to "dodge"

I don't care what hits the turn. The river may be a different story.But I'm losing all my $ on the turn if need be.

[CobaltBlue 662]

I don't care what hits the turn.

He's not saying he's scared of the K or 8 making a straight for the other guy...he's saying they're annoying cards since they may scare the villain into slowing down.

[mhoward29 0]

1/2 NL full ring live game.History: villain is a very solid and highly confident player, probably the best at the table. Makes moves in this game that no one else is capable of making, he is making a living playing 8-10 hours a day right now.Villain views Hero as a tight player and respects his play, but believes he can outplay him in any hand post flop.Villain stack = 1200+Hero stack = 850ishHero is MP2 with 9s9hUTG calls, UTG+1 folds, MP1 raises to 17, Hero calls, folds to button who calls, SB folds, BB folds, UTG calls.Flop (4 players, $67 pot) Qh 9c 4sUTG checks, Villain bets 75.00, Hero ???While making his bet, villain looks at UTG and declares that he has aces. Taking the villain at his word (thinking is that he built a huge stack, doesn't want to risk a bunch of it before going home), what line do you take to extract chips?

This situation completely depends on what I think the players behind me are going to do. Is a $75 bet most of their stack? If so I let them push before I show the real strength of my hand and if I think they might call I take a minute to call the $75 to show that it was a real decision to call in the first place.

[cubsfan44 0]

How about an over bet shove here? It'll be awful hard to put you on a hand that he isnt ahead of w/ AA

[tskillz187 0]

How about an over bet shove here? It'll be awful hard to put you on a hand that he isnt ahead of w/ AA

If he has AA we'll probably get all in regardless of the line we choose. We need to extract value from other semi-strong hands, or even induce a shove with something weak, IMO.

[TravisG 0]

mhm.. i thought this hand was an aprils fool joke. seems to be real though.min raise.

[Money022 0]

$12-$17 at PM is standard in the PM $1/$2 game and it will buy you three to five callers.

Very nice. The games in Tama actually play pretty standard. Generally PF raises from 3-5xbb do the trick.

[mtdesmoines 2]

Very nice. The games in Tama actually play pretty standard. Generally PF raises from 3-5xbb do the trick.

Yeah, I think the $300 buy in makes it a little bit of a bigger game PF.

[Jadaki 1]

Yeah, I think the $300 buy in makes it a little bit of a bigger game PF.

Game played like this when it was 100 min/max. Now that it's a 100-300 spread i've seen people open raise for 35 from UTG and pick up 4 callers.

[Jadaki 1]

This situation completely depends on what I think the players behind me are going to do. Is a $75 bet most of their stack? If so I let them push before I show the real strength of my hand and if I think they might call I take a minute to call the $75 to show that it was a real decision to call in the first place.

The other player who villain was talking too had about 400 in front of him, other player in the hand was around 200 but neither looked particularly happy with the flop. I was 90% sure that call or raise, I was going to be heads up with the villain in the pot.

[mtdesmoines 2]

Game played like this when it was 100 min/max. Now that it's a 100-300 spread i've seen people open raise for 35 from UTG and pick up 4 callers.

Depended on who had chips. I saw a lot of $2, $12, ... shove $100 ...